為慶祝瓶大當選溜馬精華區小板主，特別貢獻一篇小小的賽前分析討論。其實這是一個外 國 podcast 的翻譯整理，我有用 chatGPT 代翻，因為內容實在太多了，不過聽了這麼多 賽前分析，這一個內容是我聽起來討論最深的。 畢竟討論的人是溜馬專家跟尼克專家。 文長, 建議可以按 end 略過直接從後面往上先看觀戰重點, 如果有興趣回頭看四個分析師在 podcast 裡面討論到的數據和細節 再慢慢回頭看 Podcast 的翻譯稿 原影片： https://youtu.be/4aneGs8o3kg?si=4bqLFHmaljBlG54a 以下為原文與翻譯: [Benji] this playoff season there’s only one place where we’ll bet Fanatic Sportsboo k 今年季後賽只有一個地方值得我們投注，那就是Fanatic Sportsbook Yes they’re our presenting sponsor but it doesn’t make sense to bet anywhere else if you’re a sports fan 沒錯，他們是我們節目的贊助商，但如果你是運動迷，投注其他地方毫無道理 When you bet you earn fan cash win or lose which means that your bets get you closer to accumulating fan cash for authentic jerseys hats memorabilia and mor e 不論輸贏，投注都能累積「粉絲現金」，讓你更接近獲得正版球衣、帽子、紀念品等商品 Winning hits different with fan cash 透過粉絲現金贏得比賽的感覺就是不一樣 Gambling problem call 1800 gambler Connecticut residents call 800789777 Massac husetts residents call 800 327-50 New York residents call 8778NY Maryland resi dents visit mdgamblinghelp.org 若有賭博問題，請撥打 1-800-GAMBLER。康乃狄克居民請致電 800-789-7777，麻州居民 請致電 800-327-5050，紐約居民請致電 877-8-HOPENY，馬里蘭居民請訪問 mdgamblingh elp.org [Benji] Hello everybody Welcome to the most perhaps the most improbable Eastern Confer ence Finals podcast 大家好，歡迎收聽或許是史上最不可思議的東區決賽播客 I am going to be joined here by the great Caitlyn Cooper of basketball she wro te 今天我們邀請到《Basketball She Wrote》的優秀作者 Caitlyn Cooper as well as the great Samson folk of Raptors Republic and other publications fr om across the border 還有來自 Raptors Republic 和其他加拿大媒體的傑出作者 Samson Folk And of course you know him well as the detail junkie the defender of Julius th e doctor of jump shots My man DJ Zulo is here with us as well 當然還有各位熟知的細節狂魔、Julius的忠實支持者、跳投博士，我的好夥伴 DJ Zulo 也在現場 This is a KFS X’s and O’s special presentation where we have the privilege t o be joined by Caitlyn and Samson 這是KFS「戰術解析」的特別節目，很榮幸邀請到 Caitlyn 和 Samson 一起參與 [Benji] I you guys probably know Caitlyn well basketball she wrote one of the great th inkers of our game 大家可能很熟悉 Caitlyn，她是《Basketball She Wrote》的作者，籃球界的優秀思想家 之一 one of the great writers of our game just a brilliant a brilliant analyst of t he game 也是籃球界極其出色的作家和卓越的分析家 and Samson if you if you guys aren’t familiar with Samson from like the IQ RJ Barrett you know crossf function New York Toronto 如果你們不熟悉 Samson，他對IQ、RJ Barrett 以及紐約、多倫多之間的交集有深厚的研 究 you know they’re they’re basically a sideshow at this point for the for the New York Knicks he should be 他們基本上已經成為尼克隊的次要話題了，但他絕對值得你們關注 because he he is the best there is at breaking down the Raptors and the NBA at large 因為他是分析暴龍隊及整個NBA聯盟的最佳人選 he joins Caitlyn during their playoff runs they’ve been doing amazing work 季後賽期間他與 Caitlyn 合作，兩人一直做出相當精彩的內容 [Benji] So it is an honor for us DJ I speak on on behalf of DJ as well to have you guy s with us 能夠與你們兩位合作，我謹代表DJ，感到非常榮幸 to break down again what is maybe the most improbable Eastern Conference Final s in NBA history 一起分析這個可能是NBA史上最令人難以置信的東區決賽 Got to be close Um and uh here we are Pacers Knicks starts Wednesday night 一定相當接近史上之最了，我們將迎接週三晚上的溜馬對尼克之戰 We’re recording this on a Sunday afternoon so we’re going to give a lot of t ime for people to digest 我們在週日下午錄製此節目，因此大家有充裕時間消化內容 and we’re going to talk about the X’s and O’s of the series 我們將深入討論本系列賽的戰術細節 [Benji] So how is everybody doing Caitlin we’ll start with you What’s going on 大家過得如何？Caitlyn，先從妳開始，最近如何？ [Caitlyn Cooper] doing well I was just reminiscing with Andrew before we started 我很好，剛才跟 Andrew 回想起來 that at the end of our pregame pod in February We both said “Well see you aga in next year 二月份錄完賽前Podcast時，我們都說「明年再見」 We don’t anticipate doing this in the playoffs.” 完全沒想到季後賽還能再合作 So definitely wasn’t anticipated on behalf of the two people that cover these two teams 對於我們這兩個長期追蹤這兩支球隊的人來說，這真的完全沒料到 It’s unbelievable 實在太不可思議了 [Benji] Samson what’s cooking over there how’s Toronto Samson 那邊如何，多倫多最近好嗎？ [Samson Folk] doing good Doing good Yeah it’s sunny out It’s nice 很好，很好，天氣晴朗，很舒服 Also uh Nick’s fans might know me cuz my tweet gets every every time OG does something funny in an interview 尼克迷可能認識我，因為每次 OG 在採訪中有趣表現時，我的推文都會引起關注 My tweet about the type of cander you’re supposed to have in discussing thing s with him pops off 特別是關於跟他聊天該保持何種坦率態度的推文總是爆紅 So people might have seen that My advice on how to uh unriddle the unriddable OG Anobi 所以大家可能看過我如何解讀難以捉摸的 OG Anunoby 的建議 Unbelievable He’s the best What a character 難以置信，他真的很棒，個性超特別 [Benji] Each how we doing buddy man I’m Listen I’m just happy to be here DJ，最近好嗎？我只是很高興能參加 Um I am surrounded by three of the best basketball minds in the business 今天身邊坐著三位業界最傑出的籃球專家 I’m super stoked about this series and it’s been a great day for me 我對這系列賽非常興奮，今天也是很棒的一天 Had a overpriced smoothie bowl with the kids shot some hoops 陪孩子們吃了頓貴到離譜的水果冰沙碗，還打了些籃球 I’m ready to go I’m overcaffeinated Like this is this is really good times r ight now 我已經準備好了，咖啡喝得太多，現在真的感覺超棒 and really happy to break down what should be a fascinating series with the th ree of you 非常期待與你們三人一起分析這場精彩的系列賽 [Benji] Awesome Oh before Andrew gets mad at me I should say this is presented by Fana tic Sports Book So there it is I I did it Andrew 太棒了，噢！在 Andrew 生氣前，我得提醒大家，節目由Fanatic Sports Book贊助播出 ，Andrew 我說了喔！ [Benji] All right So look I think we all we all came to the table here with some kind of foundational questions about the series from a schematic standpoint 好的，我想我們今天都帶著一些從戰術層面出發的基礎性問題來討論這系列賽 And so I think we’ll just kind of take turns pitching a question and then we ’ll go around the table 因此我們會輪流提出問題，然後逐一討論 and discuss how we think it’s going to go what the different adjustments migh t be throughout the series and we’ll take it from there 看看各位認為比賽會如何發展，以及系列賽過程中可能會有的不同調整，我們就從這裡開 始 So Caitlin let’s start with you What is kind of your number one question when you’re looking at this series hit me with it Caitlyn，從妳開始吧，妳看這個系列賽時，最主要的問題是什麼？請直接告訴我 [Caitlyn Cooper] So mine comes from something that the Pacers actually never did during the reg ular season 我提出的問題其實是來自溜馬隊例行賽從未嘗試過的事 So naturally it seems like it applies greatly here 但很明顯地，在這裡卻特別適用 It’s about Aaron Nesmith 這跟Aaron Nesmith有關 So my question to the group is which I wrote a long piece about this but I wan t feedback from people who have watched the Knicks far more than I have 這個問題我之前寫過一篇很長的文章，但我希望得到對尼克隊更了解的人給予回饋 Should Aaron Nesmith guard Jalen Brunson or Karl-Anthony Towns Aaron Nesmith應該防守Jalen Brunson，還是Karl-Anthony Towns？ and to give some background on how I came to this question in game three last year of the Eastern Conference semi-finals 我會提出這問題的背景，是去年東區準決賽的第三場比賽 the Pacers made the adjustment to put Aaron onto Jalen Brunson instead of Andr ew Nembhard 溜馬隊調整了防守，讓Aaron Nesmith而非Andrew Nembhard去防守Jalen Brunson At that point in time Aaron Nesmith kind of got billed as the quote unquote Ja len Brunson stopper 當時Aaron Nesmith被某種程度上視為所謂「Jalen Brunson剋星」 I would like to push back against that a little bit because that also coincide d with Jalen Brunson’s foot injury Number one 對這點我想稍微提出反駁，因為首先那時候Jalen Brunson正好腳受傷 And number two what I felt was more impactful is that Andrew Nembhard was avai lable to be guarding in the gaps as their most impactful off-ball defender 其次，我認為更重要的是Andrew Nembhard可以作為防守缺口的守護者，他是溜馬最具影 響力的無球防守者 And Pascal Siakam then after OG Anunoby’s injury was roaming off of Precious Achiuwa a lot which was allowing Aaron to press up closer to the ball 而在OG Anunoby受傷之後，Pascal Siakam經常放掉Precious Achiuwa，因此Aaron可以更 貼近持球者施壓 So these two teams are a lot different now 但現在這兩支球隊與當時有很大的不同 Game one of the regular season happens Pascal more tethered to Anunoby Jalen B runson roaring to the Madison Square Garden crowd 例行賽第一場時，Pascal更常緊跟著Anunoby，而Jalen Brunson則在麥迪遜廣場花園球迷 前振臂高呼 that he’s asserting his dominance over Aaron Nesmith 他展現出對Aaron Nesmith的絕對優勢 Game three of the regular season happens and the Pacers make a starting lineup change 例行賽第三場時，溜馬隊改變了先發陣容 Aaron Nesmith back in the starting lineup for the Pacers opposite of Jalen Bru nson Aaron Nesmith重回溜馬隊先發陣容，與Jalen Brunson對位 I think Benji and I talked about this It felt like Jalen Brunson really wanted to prove his dominance in that matchup 我想Benji和我談過，感覺Jalen Brunson真的很想在那場對決中證明他的優勢 at the beginning of the game at the expense of Karl-Anthony Towns 這種情況在比賽一開始就出現了，但卻犧牲了Karl-Anthony Towns的機會 who was being guarded by the formidable front court of Thomas Bryant and Obi T oppin in that particular basketball game 當時Karl-Anthony Towns是由Thomas Bryant和Obi Toppin這對強大的前場防守組合盯防 to this point in time Long story short Aaron has not guarded Karl-Anthony Town s 簡單說，到目前為止，Aaron還沒有防守過Karl-Anthony Towns By my eye Karl-Anthony Towns has been limited somewhat both in terms of his in volvement and his efficiency when he’s been guarded by smaller players 根據我的觀察，當Karl-Anthony Towns被較矮小的球員防守時，他的參與度和效率都受到 了一些限制 in part because how the Knicks attack 部分原因是尼克隊的進攻方式所致 So to all three of you Aaron Nesmith guarding Jalen Brunson or guarding Karl-A nthony Towns 所以我想問你們三位：Aaron Nesmith應該去防守Jalen Brunson，還是Karl-Anthony Tow ns？ [Samson Folk] I Okay I’ll go first 好，我先說吧 I have long been of the belief Obviously the numbers showed up in your article Caitlyn uh which everyone should read 我一直認為（而數據也在你的文章中有提到，Caitlyn，你的文章真的很值得大家閱讀） but Karl Towns is a guy who uh is affected greatly by who’s standing across f rom him what archetype of defender Karl Towns是一名深受對位防守者類型影響的球員 and for whatever reason be it you know his own proclivities or let’s say the Knicks what they want to get get into offensively 不論是他自己的傾向還是尼克隊希望採用的進攻策略 even this goes back to the the Wolves as well 甚至早在他還在灰狼隊時就如此了 when you put a wing or a guard on him it does kind of make it more difficult f or him to know how to implement his own offense 當你派一個側翼或後衛去防守他時，他往往會難以決定如何施展自己的進攻手段 And on the one hand it’s like I do think Nesmith is a better fit to guard Jal en Brunson because of his size and what it allows as you said Caitlyn the Pace rs to do off ball 一方面來說，我認為Nesmith更適合防守Jalen Brunson，因為他的體型，而且正如Caitly n你提到的，他能讓溜馬隊在無球防守上有更多選擇 However I do think that there is and I guess this is just your article by the way Caitlyn 不過我也覺得（順便提一下，這也正是你的文章內容，Caitlyn） but having Nesmith there for screening actions off of Karl 讓Nesmith去處理與Karl相關的掩護動作 if they want to involve as you said it may just end up putting Nesmith on Brun son anyway 如你所說的，最後可能還是會變成讓Nesmith去防守Brunson And it also gets to start out every possession by putting you know Karl-Anthon y Towns in that same paradox 而這樣做每個進攻回合一開始就會把Karl-Anthony Towns放入那種進退兩難的境地 that he’s completely gets wrapped up in when he’s being guarded by non-bigs 這種困境正是當他被非內線球員防守時經常面臨的情況 So I think it’s worth a shot 因此我認為值得一試 As you know Caitlyn and as many anybody who listens to our podcast knows 就像你所了解的，Caitlyn，以及我們Podcast聽眾所知的 when you come up with some like hey this is kind of odd but I’d like to see i t I always say yeah dude let’s see how it works 當有人提出一些奇特卻有趣的想法時，我總是會說：「沒錯，兄弟，就試試看吧！」 So that’s that’s kind of how I come away from it 所以這就是我的看法 and Nembhard I mean a little bit chance of redemption maybe if he’s on Brunso n you know maybe he’s maybe he’s feeling himself a little bit more 至於Nembhard，我覺得如果讓他去防守Brunson，也許是個贖罪的機會，也許他會找回一 點信心 Who knows but I I would give it a shot 誰知道呢，但我會願意嘗試看看 [DJ Zullo] Yeah I I think you almost have to go that route 沒錯，我覺得你幾乎必須走這條路了 And it’s I will say I think Towns is probably after the Boston series and aft er seeing against Detroit too 而且老實說，我覺得Towns經過對上波士頓和活塞的系列賽後 I think he’s a little more equipped to counter that in in the post and you’r e seeing him 現在他在低位應對這種情況時，可能更有能力了，你可以看到他的表現 in whether it is post-ups or whether it is offensive rebounding I think he is taking advantage 不管是低位單打還是進攻籃板，我覺得他正在有效地利用這種優勢 as well as he can in terms of weaponizing wings guarding him 尤其是面對由側翼球員防守他的時候，他特別能發揮這樣的優勢 And you know I’m heartened by the fact that he has been a little bit better a nd I’ve been talking about this for a while 你們也知道，我一直有提到這點，我很高興他最近有進步 Instead of trying to bulldoze his way to the basket against wings if he can ju st face up rip and go 與其嘗試硬扛側翼球員強行推進，如果他能夠直接面框持球突破 I think he’s a lot to handle 我認為他將會很難防守 And you saw that in game six against Jaylen Brown and then against Horford a l ittle bit too 你們也看到了第六場對Jaylen Brown時的表現，以及稍微對上Horford時的狀況 where if he makes quick decisions he can get there before double comes and he can get all the way to the basket on a single dribble 當他快速做決定，就能在對方包夾前，用一個運球直接攻到籃下 He’s really ineffective I think Caitlyn this is probably where you’re going with this as well 但我認為他真正無效的地方，Caitlyn妳可能也會這樣覺得 He’s largely ineffective against post doubles especially coming from the bott om or the baseline 當低位包夾從底線或底部過來時，他通常都會變得非常無效 He hasn’t solved that 這點他還沒有找到解法 Now he’s better when he can face and see where the coverage is coming from 當他面框並且清楚看到包夾從哪裡來時，他的表現會好得多 but if he’s trying to back down and it’s Myles Turner roaming that he can ge t into a lot of trouble in those scenarios 但如果他試圖背框單打，而此時Myles Turner又在底線游移防守，他會遇到很多麻煩 So listen I would be a little concerned about Nesmith in terms of foul trouble 老實說，我會稍微擔心Nesmith陷入犯規麻煩 But in terms of like how to start the game I think you have to go that route 但如果討論到比賽開局該怎麼做，我覺得你必須要嘗試這個策略 The only question maybe is whether Siakam is the guy to do it 唯一可能的疑問是，Siakam是不是更適合這個角色 or do you sort of use that in spurts and not may not maybe go that route cuz i t feels like Siakam at least physically can handle that 或者你只是偶爾採用這個策略，而不是一直使用，因為感覺Siakam至少在體格上能勝任 I don’t know if that means now you’re bringing another screener into the act ion 我不知道這是否意味著你現在得引入另一個掩護者 and you’re getting a secondary step up or you’re doing something to maybe in volve Siakam in in that action 你或許需要有第二波掩護，或者其他方式來讓Siakam參與其中 but it feels like he physically can can handle it 但感覺上，Siakam的身體素質確實能應付這點 I do wonder if Nesmith has the bulk and the physicality to ultimately push Tow ns off a spot 我確實懷疑Nesmith的體格和力量是否真的足以把Towns推出他想要的位置 But if if Karl is doing what I think he should do and that’s like facing rip and go I think he could be pretty dominant 但如果Karl能像我想的那樣，採用面框持球直接突破，我覺得他將會非常具有統治力 But if he’s falls into the scenario of just like trying to back his way in of f balance doubles come he’s not seeing it 但如果他又陷入背框單打的情況，被包夾時失去重心又看不清包夾來襲 then I think the Pacers are going to make out pretty well in that in that sort of matchup 我認為在這種情況下，溜馬隊將會佔據上風 [Benji] Yeah I think Nesmith isn’t is the interesting I think probably most people wa tching this will say isn’t Nesmith like option number three 是啊，我覺得Nesmith的情況很有趣，可能大多數觀眾會認為：Nesmith不是應該是第三選 項嗎？ I mean let’s break down the options 我意思是，讓我們仔細分析一下各個選項 You have the Turner option which would be the traditional matchup 你可以選擇用Turner去防守，這會是傳統的對位方式 that to Caitlyn’s earlier point almost all teams have gone away from putting their traditional centers on KAT for all the reasons that we’ve discussed 如同Caitlyn稍早提到的，基於我們之前討論過的原因，幾乎所有球隊都已經避免用傳統 中鋒去防守KAT了 We’ve been talking about this all season long 我們整個賽季都在談論這件事 It was something that was going to happen when the trade was made 當初交易發生時，這是可以預見的情況 We knew Hart would be the guy the centers guard 我們知道Hart將會是由中鋒來防守的人選 It allows now your best shot blocker in Turner to roam and clog everything els e up the way Luke Kornet did in game five against the Knicks 這種策略可以讓你最好的火鍋手Turner自由游移防守，封鎖其他所有空間，就像Luke Kor net在對尼克的第五戰所做的 And that’s been the traditional coverage now against the Knicks since basical ly January 這基本上從一月以來就已經是對尼克隊的傳統防守方式了 Even if it was present all the way back in preseason it became the coverage st arting in January 即使這在季前賽就出現過，但從一月開始才真正成為主流防守策略 So let’s assume they’re going to go to some route where not Myles Turner Myl es Turner is guarding Josh Hart 所以我們假設他們會採用某種策略，而不是讓Myles Turner防守其他人，而是讓他盯防Jo sh Hart Is that the safe assumption Caitlyn in this scenario 在這個情況下，這樣的假設是否正確，Caitlyn？ [Caitlyn Cooper] It would be to be honest I’ll be surprised if they go to this in game one Smi th or Nesmith 老實說，如果他們在第一場比賽就採用這種策略，無論是用Smith或Nesmith，我都會感到 驚訝 I mean I’ll be surprised if they go to a cross match in game one 我的意思是，如果第一場就採用交叉防守，我會覺得很意外 In my long term I think that they’re going to get to it but I won’t be surpr ised in game one if it’s Myles Turner at the center 長期來看，我認為他們最終會走這個方向，但如果第一場比賽仍然是Myles Turner擔任中 鋒，我並不會驚訝 [Benji] Wow that’s that’s what they’ve done the entire regular season 哇，這可是他們整個例行賽都在做的事啊 The only players that have guarded Karl-Anthony Towns are Turner Bryant Jax an d Toppin when he’s been at the five 唯一防守過Karl-Anthony Towns的球員只有Turner、Bryant、Jax，以及當他打五號位時 的Toppin It’s just with all of the evidence that has mounted since even the last Pacer s matchup 不過從上次對戰溜馬隊之後的所有證據來看 It’s like I mean that would be such a breath of fresh air 如果能換個方式，這真的會讓人耳目一新 Not to say Turner can’t make things difficult on Towns but all of the sudden now you open up the pick and pop game 並不是說Turner無法給Towns製造麻煩，但如果突然間你讓他們打起擋拆跳投 which hasn’t been available to the Knicks in in five months essentially which is crazy 這個戰術尼克隊基本上已經有五個月沒有使用了，這真的太瘋狂了 Back it but to DJ’s point Towns has been really good against the Pacers cente rs at attacking quickly out of face ups and getting downhill out of fake hando ffs 回到DJ的觀點，Towns在面對溜馬中鋒時，面框進攻和假手遞手後的快速下切都非常出色 They can’t close out to his right hand for some unknown inexplicable reason t o me 我不知道為什麼，他們就是無法阻止他的右手突破 But so what’s what’s the downside to Siakam as opposed to Nesmith like why i s Nesmith the one you went to 但那麼相較於Nesmith來說，Siakam會有哪些劣勢呢？為什麼你一開始就選擇了Nesmith？ [Caitlyn Cooper] Nesmith’s been better against Brunson Nesmith在防守Brunson方面表現得比較好 and I’m assuming that KAT’s going to set the screen 而且我預設KAT會來掩護 and when they do if they bring another screener and like let’s pretend they w ant Haliburton as the screener defender 當他們這麼做時，如果又多帶一個掩護者，比方說他們希望Haliburton作為掩護者的防守 者 Siakam getting over the top of that Siakam要繞過掩護防守的時候 The inverted actions against Milwaukee were quite poor 他在對雄鹿隊時的反向掩護防守表現非常糟糕 Samson probably has more evidence to this than I do but over like the last yea r and a half Samson可能比我有更多證據，但過去一年半左右 There’s many things that Siakam does well and their impact numbers are astron omically better when Siakam is on the floor Siakam有很多做得好的地方，而當他在場上時，球隊的整體影響數據也好非常多 but that’s mainly about what he does off ball 但這主要是因為他在無球防守時的表現 I’d be a little bit nervous about him defending in space repeatedly against B runson up at the top of the key 我會有點擔心他一再地在三分線弧頂區域與Brunson進行空間上的一對一防守 So that’s kind of where I lean with that 這是我為什麼比較傾向使用Nesmith的原因 And also like just real quick if you’re starting Nembhard out against Brunson and anticipating that screen 另外補充一下，如果你一開始就讓Nembhard去防守Brunson並預期會出現掩護的話 you’re going to be playing the Knicks much deeper into the clock 你會迫使尼克隊進攻時間變得更晚，讓他們進入進攻倒數 and the foul trouble is going to be mitigated against Nesmith because Nembhard ’s going to be a lot better at pressuring the ball without fouling 而Nesmith的犯規問題也會因此減輕，因為Nembhard在施壓持球者時更不容易犯規 But I’ll let Samson speak to those things 不過我還是讓Samson來進一步解釋這點吧 [Samson Folk] The late clock thing when I was poking around the Knicks are one of the best 我稍微研究了一下，尼克隊在進攻倒數時 I think they’re a top two team in the playoffs so far at hitting shots in the back and like the last four seconds of the shot clock 在這次季後賽中，是倒數四秒內命中率排名前兩名的球隊 I that’s obviously not predictive in the playoffs It’s just a I had I had th e stat in my head 當然，這並不代表季後賽接下來就會這樣，只是我剛好記得這個數據而已 So but it’s not predictive but it’s it’s it’s that’s been a Knicks thing since Brunson came aboard 雖然不能完全預測，但自從Brunson加入之後，這確實一直都是尼克隊的特色之一 Like they they are not they are very comfortable there now 他們現在對這樣的情況已經非常習慣了 Sometimes too comfortable if you’re asking I think DJ would agree with me 甚至有時候可能太過習慣了，我想DJ會認同我的說法 but they are very comfortable whittling the clock down and letting you know Br unson make a play at the end 但他們確實很擅長慢慢消耗進攻時間，最後再由Brunson來決定進攻的處理方式 Yeah Uh and just honestly Nesmith I think is uh more aggressive 嗯，而且老實說，我認為Nesmith更積極一點 Uh like I think Pascal obviously is a bigger body to that point but Nesmith I think is really aggressive really feisty 當然，我也認為Pascal身體條件更好，但我覺得Nesmith更積極、更充滿鬥志 and will of course hearken back to what what we were talking about at the top 當然，這會回到我們最開始的討論 which is that Karl despite obviously having improvements over time 也就是Karl雖然明顯有所進步 it does if you’re trying to identify a potential weakness against one of the best shooting bigs of all time 但如果你要試著找到這個史上最強投射型長人的潛在弱點 a guy who is like when he has his game going it’s he’s something to behold 他當比賽節奏掌握好的時候，真的非常值得觀賞 trying to put him a step back or like kind of get him off rhythm You do that 如果你試圖讓他退一步，或者稍微打亂他的節奏，就可能成功 Now obviously Caitlyn I don’t know if that happens in game one 當然，Caitlyn，我也不知道第一場比賽會不會這樣發生 but I do think that and yeah also when it progresses into later matchups with you know screens switching and all that kind of stuff 但我確實覺得，尤其當後續比賽開始出現掩護、換防這些情況時 I don’t Pascal I don’t think you want like Paul George up above the break ni mly bimy like around everything Yeah 我不覺得你會想讓Pascal像Paul George一樣，在弧頂附近靈活地來回移動追防 Yeah And the other thing is and I think if you watch the series last year 另外一點，如果你回頭看去年的系列賽 Brunson obviously had a great game one solid game two Brunson顯然在第一場表現出色，第二場也很穩定 I think his performance against Nembhard is a has been a little overrated in t he sense that the shot making 但我覺得他對上Nembhard的表現可能被稍微高估了，因為他命中的那些投籃 in the cuz he wasn’t getting to the rim and he wasn’t even getting into the paint a lot 他當時其實很少能殺到籃下，甚至連禁區也沒能深入太多 It was a lot of like left elbow right elbow just shooting over the top 多半是左側肘區、右側肘區這種位置的跳投 And listen he can do that against Nembhard who lacks the the size to really af fect his shot 當然，他可以對Nembhard這樣投籃，因為Nembhard缺乏足夠的身高去影響他的出手 but it’s still a 45 to 52% on the high-end attempt in terms of the field goal percentage 但這種投籃即便在高效情況下，命中率也只是落在45%到52%之間 [DJ Zullo] So if he’s making those shots at 52% it’s going to be a hard series for the Pacers 因此如果他真的能以52%的命中率命中那些投籃，這對溜馬來說會是一個艱難的系列賽 But if it’s more in the range of you know 45 to 48 但如果他的命中率更接近45%到48%的話 I think you would live with that in the sense that you’re not gaining so much of the 我覺得這樣的結果你還能接受，因為這意味著你並沒有承受太大的損失 you’re not risking the foul trouble as much Brunson getting to the line 而且你也降低了Brunson造犯規並站上罰球線的風險 and you’re keeping him out of the paint for the most part 而且你大致上能阻止他進入禁區 because that’s where I think Nembhard did a really good job last year at time s just keeping him walled off 因為我認為去年Nembhard在這方面做得非常出色，有好幾次成功地阻止了Brunson突破 It was just Brunson was so good in that intermediate mid-range area just makin g really tough shots 只是Brunson在中距離區域太出色了，能投進許多非常困難的投籃 I mean they were they were fall-aways um pivot aways just a lot of shots that he was taking and making 我意思是，他投中了很多後仰跳投、轉身跳投之類的高難度投籃 It’s a really good contest from Nembhard 儘管Nembhard的防守非常出色 So I I think it and you look at games three three on Brunson had a pretty inef ficient finish to that series 而且如果你再看看從第三場之後，Brunson在該系列賽中的效率明顯下降了不少 So I think it would be if I’m a Pacer fan I feel a little more comfortable 所以我想，如果我是溜馬的球迷，我會感覺比較安心一些 than I think the the the national media is suggesting regarding Nembhard just being cooked by Brunson on in every game 相較於一些全國媒體所說的「Nembhard每場比賽都被Brunson徹底打爆」 I don’t think that was really the case 我並不認為情況真的是這樣 It was some great shot making but I don’t know if it was sustainable shot mak ing over you know a seven six seven game series 當時確實有很多很棒的投籃表現，但我不確定這種表現是否能在六、七場的系列賽中一直 維持下去 Nembhard’s better at playing at contain and Nesmith a little bit more ambitio us and certainly has the more length Nembhard在防守壓制方面比較好，而Nesmith則更加積極，毫無疑問也擁有更好的臂展 For me it’s almost like through these three games in the regular season they had they had more trouble containing Karl-Anthony Towns than they did Brunson 就我個人而言，從這三場例行賽來看，他們對Karl-Anthony Towns的防守明顯比對Brunso n更困難 And because of that like just by the numbers his touches 19.2 per 100 possessi ons when he’s defended by guards 而根據數據來看，當他被後衛防守時，每100回合僅有19.2次觸球 31.2 when he’s defended by centers 而被中鋒防守時，每100回合則有31.2次觸球 It’s a lot of like he gets marginalized it’s a lot of idle standing 換句話說，他被邊緣化了，經常站在原地無所作為 So if the Pacers I mean if if they can just get him standing next to Aaron Nes mith on the wing 所以對溜馬隊來說，如果他們能讓他僅僅站在側翼，被Aaron Nesmith盯住 and they’re funneling more through the you know the Brunson Josh Hart pick an d roll which is a capable action 然後尼克隊更多地使用Brunson與Josh Hart的擋拆，當然這仍然是個有威脅的戰術 I just think that you have to be happier with that if you’re the Pacers than what they’ve seen through the three regular season games 我想對溜馬隊來說，這會是比例行賽中所看到的情況更值得開心的結果 [Benji] Yeah I I that’s why I mean if they do come out with Turner in game one and Ca itlyn you know the team better than anybody 沒錯，這也是我認為如果他們真的在第一場比賽就派Turner防守的話，Caitlyn，妳比任 何人都更了解這支球隊 to me that’s a huge win for New York 對我來說，這對紐約來講將會是巨大的勝利 like however many possessions you can get to before Carlisle realizes he has t o make that switch is like a bonus 意思就是在Carlisle意識到他必須做出調整之前，你能搶到多少個回合都是額外的收穫 cuz most teams have both the Pistons and the Celtics almost came out game one first possession in that kind of coverage 因為大部分球隊，包括活塞和塞爾提克，幾乎在第一場的第一個回合就採用了這種防守策 略 So that’ll be interesting 所以這將會很有趣 You know just kind of like a an offshoot of this of course is the is the Pacer s full-court pressure 當然，與此相關的另一個議題就是溜馬隊的全場壓迫防守 like they are a team probably more than any team in the league that provides t hat that that 48-foot pressure 他們可能是聯盟中最常使用全場48尺施壓的球隊 I am fascinated to see how the Knicks deal with that 我很好奇尼克隊會如何應對這樣的防守 What I thought was encouraging was in game six they started really they they t hey began having a concerted effort screening at half court for Brunson 我覺得鼓舞人心的是，在第六場比賽裡，他們開始有意識地在半場附近為Brunson設立掩 護 whether it was Hart whether it was KAT to just try to free him up 無論是Hart還是KAT來做這個掩護，目的都是想讓Brunson能夠輕鬆擺脫壓迫 How much does Brunson even bring up the basketball and deal with all that pres sure Brunson究竟會有多少時間自己持球過半場，應付這些防守壓力？ that’s going to that’s going to wear him down and then McConnell comes in an d that that Pacers second wave comes in 這些全場壓迫將會耗損他的體力，而當McConnell帶領溜馬第二陣容上場時 and they’ll also apply all that pressure 他們也會繼續施加這樣的壓力 The Knicks right now are seven deep 尼克隊目前實際上只用了七人輪替 So to me that’s kind of an interesting push and pull in the series 對我來說，這將是系列賽中一個非常有趣的攻防焦點 is how the Knicks deal with all that pressure the wear down on Brunson 也就是尼克隊如何應付這種全場施壓，以及Brunson的體力耗損問題 Does Josh Hart bring up the ball a little bit Josh Hart會稍微多一些持球過半場嗎？ how do they free him with those step up those step-up screens high up the floo r 他們會如何透過半場以上的提前掩護讓他擺脫防守？ what do you guys think there and how how are they going how do you think the K nicks should approach that to kind of break down that pressure a little bit 你們覺得呢？尼克隊應該怎麼做才能有效地破解這種全場防守的壓力？ [Caitlyn Cooper] I can tell you that the Pacers kind of have a tendency to go overboard with ov ers when teams counter with the three-quarter court and half-court screens 我可以告訴你們，當對手用四分之三場或半場的掩護來破解壓迫時，溜馬隊往往會過度積 極地繞掩護 And sometimes that works in the offense’s favor 有時候，這反而會有利於進攻方 cuz if you’re giving up an odd-man advantage at three-quarter court 因為如果你在四分之三場就讓進攻方獲得多打少的優勢 and Myles Turner sometimes they even have Myles Turner up at the level of thos e screens at half-court 而有時候，他們甚至會讓Myles Turner站在半場掩護的高度防守 and he’s having to cover that much ground 他必須要負責很大的防守範圍 So sometimes I’ve seen that be fairly effective 因此我有時候看到這種策略反而相當有效 They dialed some of that back against Milwaukee which I thought was to their b enefit 但他們在對上密爾瓦基時稍微減少了這種防守強度，我覺得這對他們有利 at least when Giannis was the bring-up ball handler 尤其是當Giannis自己帶球過半場的時候 which will certainly be different in this matchup with what Brunson does 但這次面對Brunson肯定會有所不同 so well like when it’s not just using those screens it’s the fact that he ca n he can reject them Brunson並不只是使用那些掩護，他最厲害的是他經常能拒絕掩護，直接走另一邊 he’s so good at that and get you now you’re off balance 他非常擅長這點，可以迅速讓防守者失去重心 In game six you can watch I would say seven or eight drives happened just on h alf-court screens that he rejected 在第六場比賽裡，大概有七、八次他的切入進攻，就是透過他拒絕半場掩護而產生的 and now the whole defense is trying to figure out who’s covering Is there goi ng to be a scram switch somewhere 然後整個防守端就必須趕緊重新調整，判斷是否要進行即時換防 like how are they and they the Knicks got a ton of action out of that 而尼克隊也因此製造了大量的進攻機會 I wonder I wonder if the Pacers will stay with it if the Knicks can counter 我很好奇，如果尼克隊成功應對，溜馬隊是否會堅持繼續這樣的防守方式 and again like how much does Hart bring up the ball what what do you got on th at 再一次地，Josh Hart究竟會有多少持球過半場的機會？你們怎麼看這點？ [DJ Zullo] Yeah well I think it just it speaks to the overall like my big concern coming into the series 是啊，我覺得這其實呼應了我對這個系列賽最大的擔憂 You mentioned seven guys and it I mean Cam Payne technically is in the rotatio n 你剛提到尼克目前只用了七人輪替，雖然技術上來說Cam Payne也在輪替名單裡 but he’s he’s getting spot minutes in the first half if that 但他充其量也只是第一節短時間上場一下而已 and it just feels like considering the the amount of ball pressure 再考慮到溜馬隊所施加的防守壓力 considering the the mental stress of having to get back on makes misses 還有進攻結束後馬上就得退防的心理壓力 and to do that in that gauntlet for 48 minutes a night playing seven guys 然後每晚要靠七人輪替去撐完整場48分鐘的比賽 You talk about the ball pressure 你提到的防守壓力這點 It feels like where this — how the Knicks hold up if this series is extended six seven games 這讓我覺得，如果這系列賽真的拖到第六、第七戰，尼克隊是否撐得住？ Like what is this team going to look like towards the end of the series 到了系列賽尾聲時，這支球隊的狀態會變成什麼樣子？ and I think it’s — of all the things we can talk about 我覺得在我們討論的所有問題中 the Knicks being at seven guys and the Pacers going you know 10-deep 尼克隊只有七人輪替，而溜馬卻有十人輪替 and playing with that pace and that fervor for that extended amount of time 並且能以高節奏、高強度維持那麼長時間 It’s — of all the — it’s the the biggest question coming in 這應該是整個系列賽裡最大的一個問題 Can the Knicks withstand that and how do they do it 尼克隊到底能不能撐住？他們又該怎麼撐？ [Benji] I think it has to be some Brunson off ball 我覺得尼克必須讓Brunson多一點打無球 I think the advantage of having those screens set at half court or even deeper 我認為，在半場甚至更遠的地方設置掩護的一大好處是 is that you can — you can give Brunson a chance to get deep into the paint 你可以讓Brunson更容易切入到禁區深處 which in the half court when the Knicks offense has bogged down 而當尼克的半場進攻陷入停滯時 it’s been a lack of gravity on the on-ball creator 問題常常出在持球進攻者無法吸引足夠防守重心 whether it’s Bridges or whether it’s Brunson 無論是Bridges還是Brunson they need someone to get deep into the paint 他們需要有人能殺進禁區深處 Not a paint touch where you’re outside the restricted area 不是那種只踏進油漆區邊緣的切入 Are you creating a reaction by the defense 而是你是否真的迫使防守做出反應？ If you are setting screens at half court and you’re playing odd-man or even f our-on-four 如果你在半場設掩護，製造出4打4或多打少的局面 I think you have a better chance with that sort of space to create those 你就有更多空間可以去創造機會 and that’s — that could be an advantage for the Knicks 而這可能是尼克隊的一個優勢 But again we saw the amount of driving Brunson had to do in the Indiana series last year 但我們也看過去年對印第安納那一輪，Brunson需要切入的次數有多麼頻繁 That’s a hard way to play 這樣打真的很累 If you’re setting those screens up and then your big is now — whether it’s Towns or Hart — is pretty much out of the play 因為當你設掩護後，你的大個子（不管是Towns還是Hart）幾乎都被擋在戰術之外 You saw that with Hartenstein last year 去年Hartenstein就是這樣的例子 You can set the screen there but now you’re effectively — your roll game is non-existent 你可以在那設掩護，但你的擋拆順下根本無法啟動 You can play Turner in a drop and you can corral and you can keep the big out of the play 溜馬可以讓Turner站在落位防守區，控制節奏，把大個子排除在戰術之外 Now how Brunson can attack that — that’s where the Knicks will get the advan tage 現在關鍵在於Brunson怎麼破解這樣的防守，這會是尼克能否佔便宜的關鍵 But it is a hard way to play offense 但這樣打進攻是很累人的 And if Brunson is driving that many times a night and it’s — it’s a lot of work 而如果Brunson每晚都要切入這麼多次，負擔真的很重 then you wonder how that can withstand over a long series 那你就會懷疑，這樣的打法是否撐得過一個長系列賽 I think that’s — that’s the biggest concern going into this for the Knicks from my perspective 這就是我個人認為尼克目前最大的隱憂 [Samson Folk] Yeah to that point I think it is a huge swing in the series 是啊，關於這點，我認為這會是這個系列賽中非常關鍵的一個變數 because the Knicks will be able to get opportunities with the ball in Brunson ’s hand 因為尼克隊確實可以透過把球交給Brunson製造進攻機會 It’s just about the totality of it and it’s like can you do this repeatedly over the course of the game 但問題是這樣的戰術是否能夠在整場比賽中持續執行下去 and also if you move the ball on to Hart like they — he might get pressed as well 而且如果你把球交給Hart帶上來，他可能同樣會被溜馬施壓 Like the Pacers throw guys — like there could be a few different guys who are still chasing him the whole time 因為溜馬會派出不同的球員持續施壓追防 And I do wonder if Brunson is able to be — like the efficacy of it is so good as you say 我確實想知道Brunson能不能真的 — 就像你說的那樣，保持那樣高的效率 like getting downhill seven eight times in the past game just like breaking do wn getting into the paint 就像他在上一輪比賽中那樣，七八次直接殺進禁區，擊潰防線 because of it with the screen rejects 尤其是因為他善於拒絕掩護的突破方式 Can he move the Pacers away from that 他能迫使溜馬放棄這樣的防守策略嗎？ Do the Pacers take the long view regardless for the series 還是說溜馬會從長期戰略來看，堅持這套打法 How does that shake out 這會怎麼發展？ Really it gives them an advantage but it also does conform play into something that favors the Pacers 這種打法確實給了尼克一些優勢，但某種程度上也正好符合溜馬擅長的比賽節奏 [Benji] That’s what makes it such an interesting push and pull 這也正是讓這場系列賽攻防拉鋸如此有趣的原因 And it is an every-other-night series I think Right 而且這輪系列賽是隔天就要再打的節奏吧？ I don’t think there’s any — 我記得中間沒什麼休息日—— [DJ Zullo] So that’s an interesting wrinkle here that um I certainly I think plays into the Pacers advantage 這也是一個很有趣的細節，我認為這肯定對溜馬是有利的 I mean you never know with these things 當然這種事你永遠無法百分百預測 but with the amount of minutes the Knicks guys are playing 但以尼克目前主力球員的上場時間來看 to play every single every other night with travel 還要每隔一天就打一場、而且還得搭飛機移動 it’s asking — it’s asking a ton 這真的太吃重了 It’s asking a ton from this Knicks roster 對這支尼克隊來說，是極大的負擔 [Benji] Uh Dee what’s your — what’s your big question for the series hit us DJ，你對這個系列賽最大的問題是什麼？來說說看吧 [DJ Zullo] Yeah so I think the double-big lineup for the Knicks — Towns and Mitch 我覺得尼克隊的雙塔陣容，也就是Towns和Mitch的組合 how effective can those two be against this Pacer team 對上溜馬會有多大的效果？ and is there a specific lineup that you would unleash that against 有沒有特定的對位組合你認為可以派出這兩人？ um in terms of like how the Pacers are are playing it 就目前溜馬的打法來說 you know I do worry about makes or misses — they’re pushing 我會擔心進球或沒進球之後，溜馬都會快速推進 How does Mitch — how does Karl navigate that 那Mitch和Karl該如何應對這種節奏？ Are they getting matched up 他們能及時回防對上正確的人嗎？ We have the the Mitch guarding seven eight ten players in one possession again st the Celtics 像是對上塞爾提克時Mitch一個回合要防七八個人的情況 That’s — that’s made the rounds 那個畫面已經瘋傳了 That was an amazing performance by him in that single possession 那個回合他的防守表現真的太精彩了 but really the whole series of guarding in space 但這整個系列賽他在空間防守上的表現也都不錯 But I do wonder about being able to play those guys — you know 10 minutes a n ight 但我會懷疑這兩人是否真的能每場搭配打上10分鐘 and being effective enough as offensive rebounders and as defenders in space 同時又能在進攻籃板與空間防守上都發揮足夠效果 to really make it worth it 這樣是否真的值得使用這套陣容？ And if not — because that’s a that was a huge advantage for them 否則的話…這本來應該是他們的一大優勢 And it’s been that way for the playoffs 而且在季後賽中也一直是 They’re +13 in the minutes they’ve played 這兩人在場時尼克隊是+13的淨勝分 If you can mitigate that advantage then I think it’s a problem for the Knicks 如果你能削弱這個優勢，那對尼克來說就是個麻煩了 But you know the question I have is like can they be close to as effective aga inst this Pacer team 所以我的問題是：這兩人對上溜馬，能否延續對波士頓與底特律那樣的效率？ as they were against Boston and as they were against Detroit 就像他們對波士頓與底特律時那樣有效？ [Caitlin Cooper] I actually think that that could be an effective wrinkle 我其實認為這可能會是一個有效的變招 especially if they pair it — I would be very careful if I’m Tibs — to pair Mitch’s minutes with Obi Toppin’s 尤其是如果Tibbs教練能夠謹慎地安排Mitch和Obi Toppin同時上場的時間 If you can get the double bigs out there when Myles and Obi are out there 如果你能在Myles Turner和Obi同時在場時打出雙塔陣容 or if they’re going super small — like Siakam and Obi maybe 或者當他們打超小球，比如用Siakam和Obi搭配的時候 but if you can match it with Obi I think it could be effective 但如果你能針對Obi的上場時間派出這雙塔，我認為會是有效的 Because here’s what I will tell people 因為我要提醒大家一件事 The best way to limit the Pacers’ pace is to attack the offensive glass 限制溜馬節奏最好的方式，就是強攻進攻籃板 The Milwaukee Bucks would not do that 密爾瓦基公鹿隊就不這麼做 It’s against Doc Rivers’s you know ethos as a coach to be sending multiple p layers to the glass 因為這違反了Doc Rivers教練的戰術理念，他不會派太多人去衝搶進攻籃板 If you do that — that’s typically what affects them the most 但如果你這麼做，那往往是最能壓制溜馬節奏的方式 That’s why they looked as bad as they did against Cleveland 這也是為什麼他們對上騎士時看起來這麼掙扎的原因 when Cleveland had a 20-shot advantage against them 當時騎士隊比他們多出手了20次 It will slow the pace — and also the basketball is the most important part of basketball 這不只會拖慢溜馬節奏，而且「籃球最重要的是掌握球權」這句話永遠沒錯 I say that a lot but it’s true 我常說這句話，因為這是真的 Especially too — I mean Mitchell Robinson opens up offensive rebounding oppor tunities for other players on the floor too 特別是Mitchell Robinson會為場上的其他隊友創造更多進攻籃板機會 Cuz if you have to smash down to him now Josh Hart might get loose 因為如果你必須壓縮防守去夾他，Josh Hart就可能空切得分 Now somebody else might on the perimeter might get loose 或者其他外圍球員也可能趁機空檔出手 And the other thing that I would say too is 另外我還想補充一點 his presence might impact how the Pacers are able to defend as well 他在場的存在，也可能改變溜馬的整體防守方式 Because if they’re very concerned about the offensive rebounding opportunitie s that the Knicks can get 因為如果他們太在意尼克的進攻籃板機會 they’re not going to double Jalen Brunson 他們就不會敢對Jalen Brunson進行包夾 They may not even be that active doubling Karl-Anthony Towns in the post 他們甚至也不會那麼積極包夾低位的Karl-Anthony Towns Because they might think “We got to stay home” 因為他們會想：「我們得留在原位守住籃板」 “We’re not going to try playing zone on those possessions because there’s g oing to be too many holes” 「我們不能用區域聯防，因為會有太多漏洞」 Like he could be a coverage predator — I don’t know what words you want to s ay 他可能會成為破壞防守佈局的存在，我不知道該怎麼形容比較好 Coverage deterrent in terms of what the Pacers are able to put out there 總之他的存在會讓溜馬很多防守策略不敢使用 So I think it might be a little bit trickier if he’s out there when Siakam is 但如果他和Siakam同時在場，那情況可能就比較複雜了 Because Siakam is a crossmatch buster 因為Siakam是一個擅長打亂交叉對位的球員 And I’m guessing that they would probably try to put Mitchell Robinson onto S iakam 我猜他們大概會讓Mitchell Robinson去防守Siakam and chance his shooting more than they’d be willing to chance Myles Turner’s shooting 寧願賭Siakam的投籃，也不敢賭Myles Turner的 and having him guard the pick and pop 也不願讓他去防守Myles Turner的擋拆投籃 And Siakam can be pretty effective against those fives 而Siakam在對位這類中鋒時其實表現很不錯 And when he’s defended by fives they’ll just use him as the screener instead 當他被中鋒防守時，他們就會讓Siakam自己變成擋拆的掩護者 Like in game five against the Cleveland Cavaliers he set 26 screens for the Pa cers 就像第五戰對騎士時，他幫溜馬設了26個掩護 He was the most frequent screener for either team 是當場比賽兩隊中出現次數最多的掩護者 Which led to some pretty good things between he and Haliburton in the third qu arter 這讓他和Haliburton在第三節打出不少好球 So that’s an aspect of it 這也是這整個對位策略中的一環 They’re very magnanimous with who they’re willing to use as a screener 他們在使用誰來設掩護這件事上非常靈活 and when — depending upon who’s out on the court and where their advantages are going to be 會根據場上人員以及可能的優勢去做出調整 [Benji] Man, my guess would be that when Mitch is in there with Turner, he would guard Turner 我猜當Mitch跟Turner同時在場時，他會去防守Turner the same kind of way you thought that they’d start with Turner on KAT 就像你剛說他們可能讓Turner一開始對位KAT那樣的方式 Is that Tibs — although he’s gone a little less traditional in the last coup le series Tibbs這教練雖然最近幾輪比賽在用人上稍微沒那麼傳統了 to all of our — we’re all so proud of him 我們大家對此都感到欣慰（笑） He’s a pretty traditional guy 但他基本上還是個蠻傳統的教練 And so I don’t know if he’ll crossmatch to Siakam in that matchup 所以我不確定他會不會在這個對位中把Mitch調去守Siakam I actually would think to start he wouldn’t 我認為開場時他大概不會這麼做 But that’ll be an interesting wrinkle 不過這會是一個很值得關注的變化點 I mean — but to your point — Mitchell Robinson in the playoffs has now rebou nded over 20% of his team’s misses 不過，就像你剛提到的，Mitchell Robinson在季後賽的進攻籃板率已經超過了球隊失手 投籃的20% And that is absolutely absurd 這數據簡直誇張到不行 He’s rebounding a fifth of his team’s misses 他抓下了球隊每五次失投中的一次籃板 And you saw it in the Boston series 你在對波士頓的系列賽中也看到這一點了 When he came in for Josh Hart, it was like — fascinating 當他替換Josh Hart上場時，效果立刻顯現，令人驚訝 Because Mitchell Robinson literally can’t shoot a basketball 因為Mitchell Robinson基本上完全沒有外線威脅 The gravity he had on those pick-and-rolls 但他在擋拆時所製造的「重力」（吸引力） Just getting to the dunker spot as a roller 只是順下到籃下「灌籃區」這個動作 Allowed Brunson to play one-on-one 就讓Brunson可以有一對一的空間去處理進攻 Whereas when Josh Hart was a screener — not — I mean he’s a good offensive rebounder obviously 相對地，當Josh Hart擔任掩護者時，他雖然也是一個不錯的進攻籃板手 But not a lob threat, not a — at-the-rim offensive rebounding threat 但他不是能接空拋的選項，也不是籃下的強力進攻點 More of a guy who crashes from the perimeter 他比較像是從外圍衝進來抓籃板的類型 His guy was just draped all over Brunson 所以他防守的那個人就可以完全貼住Brunson He had nowhere to go 導致Brunson沒什麼進攻空間 Couldn’t work one-on-one 無法發揮他一對一的能力 So Robinson has that gravity as an offensive rebounder 因此Robinson即使不是作為順下得分手 Not even as — like less as a roller and more as an offensive rebounder 而是作為進攻籃板威脅時，他的吸引力仍然非常巨大 Which — you gotta stay attached to him on that baseline 也就是說，防守者必須一直黏住他，不能放他一人在底線 And that is — it’s interesting how — how that might 這點真的很有趣，因為這可能會進一步 How that might divert the matchups for the Pacers 改變溜馬原本的防守對位配置 [Benji] Samson, anything on this — on this aspect? Samson，你對這部分有什麼看法嗎？ [Samson Folk] I do — I do just want to kick it back 有的，我確實想回應一下 Is like — when you see, obviously, Mitchell Robinson pursues the glass 就是，當你看到Mitchell Robinson那種不懈追求籃板的方式時 But when you’re watching — this is the end goal 但你在觀察的時候，你會想問：這樣做的最終目的到底是什麼？ Is the best thing an isolation in like — just for Jalen Brunson to have room? 最好的結果，是給Jalen Brunson一個單打的空間嗎？ Or what — like was Boston creative in creating any type of stoppage there? 還是說，波士頓是否有用創新的方式來阻斷這一點？ Were there tags that like overloaded and they’re like 他們是不是採用一些協防策略，比如側翼預判超載？ “You know what, we’re gonna let the weak side have something open and still contain Brunson”? 像是「我們願意讓弱邊出現空檔，但我們要守住Brunson」這種打法？ Or is it just like facing the front of the play constantly? 還是他們只是一直針對正面去施壓？ Were there any other breakdowns that you guys were seeing 你們有看到其他的防守破綻嗎 that Mitch was able to, I guess, bring for the Knicks? 是Mitch為尼克創造出來的機會？ [Benji] Yeah, I — to me it was — DJ you can speak to this also 對我來說是這樣的，DJ你也可以補充 I think it was pretty front-facing 我覺得波士頓主要是從正面壓迫 And it was like — because of the — Boston knew they had this 他們知道自己有優勢 We can roam off Josh Hart anytime 我們隨時可以從Josh Hart身上協防 And now Hart made them pay to some extent — which was very good 雖然Hart在某種程度上讓他們付出了一點代價，這點很好 But I think it was almost like 但我覺得整體上 We can simplify everything else outside of that 他們把所有其他防守簡化了 Which is why you didn’t see OG get many three — open threes 這也就是為什麼你幾乎沒看到OG有什麼空檔三分機會 You didn’t see Male get open threes until really game six 你也沒看到Miles Bridges有什麼空檔三分，直到第六戰才開始出現 When they made — got all those paint touches I talked about 當時他們開始真的打進禁區，才創造出那些空檔 But to me it was like 但對我來說重點在於 We’re going to limit the catch-and-shoot threes for the quote-unquote “good shooters” 他們的策略是封鎖所有純射手的接球就投機會 We’re going to let Josh Hart have whatever he wants 讓Josh Hart去投那些空檔隨便他 And then we can simplify it that way 這樣一來整個防守輪轉就可以變簡單了 [DJ Zullo] I think that’s on point 我覺得你說得完全正確 And I think the Towns post-ups with Mitch in the opposite dunker has been a ni ce feature 我也覺得當Towns在低位單打、而Mitch站在對側「灌籃區」時，是一個非常不錯的進攻配 置 Because whether it’s Hart in the dunker or Hart spacing to the weak side corn er 不管是讓Hart站灌籃區，還是拉到弱邊底角空間 It just makes it harder for that big — the double from the baseline 這都會讓防守的中鋒更難從底線包夾過來 Which as I mentioned has been the primary mode of scheming against Towns post- ups 而這正是過去對付Towns低位單打時最常見的策略：從底線包夾 And then the Knicks have — they’re trying to lean into that 而現在尼克則試圖在這上面做文章 You and I talked about this, Benji Benji，我們之前有聊過 Where you know Towns is setting a pin-in for Robinson 就是Towns幫Robinson設立「封阻掩護」（pin-in） To get to the other dunker spot 讓Robinson能移動到另一側的灌籃區 And that gives Towns — once he sets that dunker’s pin-in — really nice post position 而這個掩護設完後，Towns就能拿到非常好的低位位置 Which has been sort of a ongoing puzzle for the Knicks to solve 這也正是尼克隊長期以來一直在尋找答案的問題 To almost force Towns to have solid position 他們要設法「強迫」Towns能進入理想的進攻位置 And that’s been nice 這個戰術很奏效 And then you’re limited to how well and how much you’re going to double off those 而這也限制了防守端包夾的選擇與效率 If Mitch is hanging out there — because if you’re coming over it’s an auto offensive rebound 因為如果Mitch就站在那邊，你一包夾就會送給他一個進攻籃板機會 So it’s — it puts a lot of pressure on the person tasked with doubling 所以這會對執行包夾的那個人產生很大的壓力 If they’re doubling from the baseline to really affect the Towns post-up 尤其是從底線包夾Towns的那種方式 So that’s why it is more of a — you know just the physical impact 這就是為什麼這整套配置帶來的實質影響很大 That Robinson and the gravity he has on that weak-side dunker is really — 因為Robinson在弱邊灌籃區的牽制力真的—— Has been impressive and nice for Towns and the offense as a whole 對Towns來說，以及對整體進攻來說都非常有幫助 Because you’ve seen drives too where Porzingis, Kornet — they’re not even c oming over to help 你也看到對上波爾辛吉斯或Kornet時，他們甚至不敢協防 Because they’re either face guarding or they’re trying their best to wrestle with Robinson 因為他們要嘛選擇緊貼對位、要嘛努力卡住Robinson的位置 As the low-man defender — and it makes it — it just makes it much tougher 作為底線補防者，這樣讓他們的工作變得更加困難 So if they can — I think that could be something they get into 所以我覺得這會是尼克在進攻端能持續依靠的武器 Where offensively I think it’s — it’s going to work for the Knicks 我認為這樣的進攻對尼克來說會很有效 How it works on the defensive end is where I think you’re going to get the fu ll impact on that double-big lineup 但防守端的效果，就會是雙塔陣容好壞的關鍵判斷點 And there’s a lot of concerns there 而這部分確實有很多疑慮 But offensively they’re starting to lean into some really good stuff for thos e two playing together 但在進攻上，他們已經開始找出讓這兩人同場發揮的好模式了 And I think it should carry over for the most part into the series 我認為這些優勢多半能延續到這輪系列賽中 [Benji] Yeah, should — should be an interesting battleground there in terms of how mu ch — 是啊，那會是一個很值得關注的戰場，特別是關於—— I don’t think that Rick Carlisle will be above going to hack-a 我不認為Rick Carlisle會排除使用「砍人戰術」（Hack-a） Just as Joe Mazzulla wasn’t above going 就像Joe Mazzulla也會採用那樣的策略一樣 I don’t think that he will be 我不覺得Carlisle會避開這招 I’ve seen him do that in games 我看過他在比賽中這樣做過 And they think that the rebounding concerns are that exaggerated 而且他們可能認為搶籃板的重要性沒有大家說得那麼誇張 I don’t think he will be above it 所以我認為他是有可能使用的 I’m just saying that was such an interesting — it’s like a side point 我只是想說，那真的是一個很有趣的——算是支線觀察 Like, the fact that Mazzulla went to it as a heavy favorite 像Mazzulla在被看好勝出的情況下也願意這樣做 And I — it’s not like — the psychological element of that was interesting t o me 那讓我覺得其中的心理層面很有趣 I don’t know, it’s hard — it is something we can’t really know 我不知道，這不是我們能確切掌握的東西 But like, to go to something like that when you theoretically have the advanta ge in so many other areas of the game 但當你在其他層面理論上已經占優時，還願意去使用這種戰術 Was just an interesting — 這就非常值得玩味 And it’s not like the Knicks were scoring in the half court early in the seri es either 而且那系列賽初期，尼克在半場進攻也沒什麼表現 So it wasn’t like the — the points per possession threshold is pretty low 所以他們的每次進攻得分其實並不高 And so to be like, well, Mitchell Robinson — your free throw is even lower 所以會有種感覺是：「Mitchell Robinson，你的罰球命中率還比這些進攻效率更低」 Now I don’t think that the Pacers necessarily have the same kind of tools in the half court defense that the Celtics had 當然我不認為溜馬的半場防守工具箱有像塞爾提克那麼齊全 So maybe it’s even — it’s a better strategy for the Pacers 也許對溜馬來說，這反而是一個更有利的策略 But the other thing it does to the Pacers is it takes away that pace a little bit 但這戰術也會讓溜馬的比賽節奏被拖慢 Now you’re slowing the game down 現在你讓比賽速度降下來了 Mitch is at the free-throw line Mitch要去罰球線上站著罰球 And I don’t know if that plays to their advantage 我不確定這是否真的對他們有利 So that’s — 所以這是—— [Caitlin Cooper] But you think — you think you’ll see some of it, Caitlin? 不過你覺得會看到這戰術嗎，Caitlin？ [Caitlin Cooper] I’ve seen him do it 我確實看過他這樣做 I think that Jakob Poeltl took 17 free-throw attempts against them one time wh en they played the Spurs 我記得有一次對馬刺時，Jakob Poeltl對他們罰了17球 I’ve seen it 所以我知道Carlisle是會用這一招的 [Benji] Not to bog us down in this too much 我不想讓我們太陷在這個話題裡 But we keep — we keep saying like “help from the bottom” or “double from t he bottom” 但我們一直在講「從底線協防」或「從底線包夾」 What — what does it look like when Towns gets doubled from the top? 那麼，當Towns是從頂端被包夾時，會是什麼情況？ One pass away — what do you — like how — how is that process? 也就是從距離他一傳之遠的頂端包夾，那整個過程會是怎麼樣？ And how do the Knicks form up off of that? 那尼克隊的其他人會如何進行站位與支援？ [Benji] I mean it’s just an — it’s obviously an easier read for him 我的意思是，這種情況對他來說顯然比較容易判讀 I don’t think there’s a center or big in the NBA that can really make the do uble from the bottom read well 我不覺得現在聯盟裡有哪個中鋒或大個子能真正處理好從底線來的包夾 I think there’s — I mean Jokic is the one 如果真的要講的話，大概只有Jokic能做到 Cuz he — he doesn’t even have to turn 因為他甚至不用轉身 He can have his back turned and he just throws it backwards 他背對著人都能直接把球往後拋出 Yeah, he just throws it backwards and it’s an alley-oop to Aaron Gordon 對，他就這樣往後一扔，直接變成給Aaron Gordon的空中接力 [DJ Zullo] So I think for — generally speaking it’s just a harder — obviously a harder pass to make 所以整體而言，從底線來的包夾確實比較難處理，出球的角度與路線都更困難 Even when it’s coming from above the top of the key 即便是從頂端包夾，其實都還比較好應付 [Benji] His process — it’s — he can get the pass off 他的處理方式是——他能把球傳出去沒錯 But it’s like he doesn’t — he’s not pre— he’s not — he’s not making th e pass like 但他並不是那種會預判提前出球的球員 When the defender is almost in the process of closing out 他總是在防守者已經開始逼近的時候才做決定 It’s almost like they’re preloaded and then they can close out in one direct ion 等於是防守方早就佈局好，然後一下就能往特定方向包夾 [Samson Folk] And he’s so reluctant, Samson, and like — it’s the most frustrating thing 而且他真的很抗拒傳出那種簡單球，Samson，這真的很令人抓狂 Like when they do send that double, it’s like sometimes the most effective, e asiest pass 當對方包夾來了，最簡單也最有效的選擇往往是 That actually generates a three is just to throw it to the entry passer 傳給當初把球傳進低位的那個隊友 Like — and then they swing it 然後再從那邊開始傳導 And he just doesn’t — he just wants to make a cool pass 但他偏偏不想，他只想做個花俏的傳球 [Benji] I love him — hold the ball out with his right hand, hold it there 我愛他啦（笑）他會把球用右手單手舉在空中，停在那邊 And like he just wants to make a pass and spin around so badly 他真的很想那種帥氣地傳球然後轉一圈 [DJ Zullo] And so I — it is better 所以我覺得——雖然頂端包夾是比較好處理 Like he’ll — he’ll find shooters out of that 他可以從那邊找到射手 And then the Knicks do a nice job of cutting off of it too 而且尼克隊的其他人也會從那個傳球點做一些切入 Like Hart will come — they’ll dart in from the wing 像是Hart會從側翼突然切進來 And he might get something out of that 然後有機會從中得分 Or someone will cover that cut and then the 45 cut 或者有防守者補上，他們再來個45度切入 And then someone will pop to the other side 接著又會有隊友從另一側跑出來接球 So like — they’ll get stuff out of that 所以說，這整套連動其實能創造不少機會 And I think it’s better than when they double from the baseline 我認為這比從底線包夾的效果好得多 But he’s not the best at reading even that 但就算如此，他的判斷與傳球選擇還是不夠快 [Caitlin Cooper] Pacers will — the Pacers prefer to double from the top 溜馬隊的習慣是從頂端包夾 That’s what they almost exclusively do 幾乎一直都是這麼做的 They moved out of that against Giannis 不過在對上Giannis時他們有稍作調整 When they started using Gary Trent as the post-entry passer 當時他們用Gary Trent當作低位餵球者 And they started doubling from the weak side elbow instead 然後改從弱邊罰球線附近進行包夾 But if Nesmith’s guarding Towns 但如果是Nesmith在防守Towns And they’re fronting Towns or they’re going to a three-quarter court front a gainst Towns 而他們是採取三分之四正面頂防策略 Then they will double from the bottom 那麼他們就會從底線來包夾 But that’s interesting 這點真的蠻有趣的 They typically — they typically double from the top though 不過他們通常還是從頂端開始包夾 [Benji] All right, cool 好，了解 [Samson Folk] It’s kind of funny — even just in the structure of everything 這真的蠻有趣的——就連戰術整體的設計來看 It’s like, the team’s biggest fear is not always what the other team goes to 球隊最害怕的事情，往往不是對手實際使用的戰術 Or at least the fan base, right? 或者說，至少對球迷來說是這樣，對吧？ Or the analysts are like, “This is bad,” and the other team is like, “We ac tually don’t think it is.” 或是分析師們說「這樣很糟」，但對手反而覺得「其實沒什麼問題」 [Samson Folk] But to switch it — because a lot of this has kind of been like 不過換個話題好了，因為我們前面聊了很多 “How do the Knicks or how do the Pacers try and solve the Knicks defensively ” 都是在談尼克該怎麼防，或溜馬該怎麼破解尼克的防守 There is a bunch of stuff — obviously the Pacers are one of the best push-pac e teams and transition teams 但其實溜馬在快攻和推進節奏上是聯盟最強的球隊之一 But they were — one of the best, at least in the playoffs so far, at scoring in the half court 而且至少在季後賽目前為止，他們的半場進攻效率也名列前茅 [Samson Folk] I’m interested — who is guarding Tyrese Haliburton? 我很好奇——誰會負責防守Tyrese Haliburton？ What type of screening actions do we see? 我們又會看到什麼樣的掩護戰術？ Is OG Anunoby equivalent to Dean Wade? OG Anunoby在這個對位中會像Dean Wade那樣嗎？ Like all of this kind of stuff 這些問題我都很想知道 [Samson Folk] I want to start there 我想從這裡開始談 Like one — I guess I’ll ask you, Benji, first 首先我來問你，Benji Who do you think is guarding Tyrese? 你覺得誰會去防Tyrese Haliburton？ And who do you think will be their most common screener? 你又覺得溜馬最常用的掩護者會是誰？ To try and — I guess — loosen him up 來幫Haliburton製造空間 [Benji] I think Bridges will start on Tyrese 我認為一開始是Bridges去防守Tyrese And I think it’s more — it’s less because Bridges is the best matchup for T yrese 這倒不是說Bridges是最適合防守Tyrese的人 And more because I think they’re going to need OG on Siakam 而是因為他們需要讓OG去對位Siakam [Benji] To try to eliminate that pressure point 想要封鎖住溜馬進攻上的壓力點 Because I think the Knicks pick-and-roll coverage is such an — inconsistent e nough 因為我覺得尼克在擋拆防守上的表現非常不穩定 That if you have the pick-and-roll pressure point 所以如果你讓他們同時面對擋拆壓力 And you have a Siakam post-up pressure point 又有Siakam在低位發動進攻這個壓力點 They’re just going to break down 那他們的整個防線就會崩潰 [Benji] Like they need to be able to say 尼克必須要有能力去決定： “You want to throw the ball to Siakam there? We’re just going to play it one -on-one.” 「你要把球塞給Siakam？那我們就一對一守他」 And then the pick-and-roll stuff we’ll have to sort out 而擋拆部分則另外想辦法處理 So I just think that’s where — that’s how they’ll start 所以我覺得他們會從這個方式開局 With Bridges on Haliburton 由Bridges去守Haliburton [Benji] Because I think that they’re going to start traditionally with KAT on Myles T urner 因為我認為他們會用傳統對位方式，讓KAT去守Myles Turner I would certainly anticipate that the most common screener will be Myles Turne r 我也很確定溜馬最常使用的掩護者會是Myles Turner Both because you’re now testing the Knicks in terms of whether you want to sw itch, you want to drop 一方面你可以測試尼克的防守選擇——是要換防還是退防 What do you want to do? You want to blitz Haliburton? 你是要包夾Haliburton嗎？ I think blitzing is probably the worst idea on Haliburton 我覺得對Haliburton來說，包夾可能是最糟的選擇 Because now you’re in the blender 因為這樣做你會陷入溜馬的傳導旋風裡 He hits the pocket, plays just — moves the ball so well and so quickly 他會傳給擋拆空檔，然後整個球的流動會非常迅速順暢 The Knicks don’t rotate all that well when Brunson and KAT are both on the fl oor 當Brunson和KAT同時在場時，尼克的防守輪轉其實做得不太好 Don’t think they can cover out of that 我不覺得他們有能力從那樣的處境中補防成功 [Benji] So I think you’ve got to choose or mix it up between drop and switch 所以我覺得你必須在退防與換防之間選擇，或是混合使用 And kind of see how it goes 然後再依照比賽進行的狀況調整 But I would anticipate Myles Turner being the most common screener 但我認為最常出現的掩護者會是Myles Turner With a dose of whoever Brunson’s guarding 另外一種選擇是讓Brunson所防的球員來設掩護 Probably Nesmith to start 一開始可能是Nesmith [Benji] Although I know, Caitlin — I know we talked about this last season 不過我記得Caitlin，我們去年也聊過這件事 Nesmith — the worst kind of intuitive screener on the team Nesmith是整支球隊裡最不會自然擋人的球員（笑） So I know the Pacers don’t love to go to that 所以我知道溜馬也不太喜歡用這種設掩護方式 Which is perhaps why they’ll start Brunson on Nesmith more than anything else 這也可能是他們讓Brunson去守Nesmith的原因 Because they want to maybe force the Pacers into that action 可能想要逼迫溜馬去發動一個比較低效率的擋拆 [DJ Zullo] What do you think, DJ? 你怎麼看呢，DJ？ [DJ Zullo] Yeah, I agree 100% in terms of how they start 我完全同意你對開局對位的分析 And then just really fascinated to see 接下來我最有興趣看的就是 Because the Knicks got all this — they had a great look at and practice final ly switching 因為尼克隊已經從上一輪開始大量演練、實戰練習換防 And trying to play and keep the switch matchup in front 並嘗試守住每一個換防後的對位 Now with Boston, as good as those guys are at breaking the defense down and ge tting to pull-ups and step-backs 雖然波士頓的球員擅長擊破防線並出手後撤跳投 You really don’t have to worry about the pass 但你不太需要擔心他們會傳球給空檔隊友 [DJ Zullo] So the Knicks were — and this is where they really benefited 所以尼克也因此從中獲益 Where they can load up and you weren’t worried about Tatum hitting the weak s ide corner 他們可以收縮防守，而不用太擔心Tatum把球轉到弱邊底角 Whereas Haliburton, I think is even — you know 但Haliburton就完全不一樣了 I think he’s probably better at getting into the paint off the switch 我認為他在換防後切入禁區的能力甚至比Tatum更強 [DJ Zullo] And then you have the added issue of him finding the pressure point as a passe r quickly 然後還有一個問題是他能很快找到防守破口並出球 And you’re automatically in a really tough position as a defense 那防守方就會立刻陷入劣勢 So how much they go to the switching scheme is really interesting 因此尼克會多常採用換防策略是本輪的重要看點 [DJ Zullo] And on top of that, now you’re asking Karl-Anthony Towns to play some drop, s ome switching, some higher shows 再加上，現在你還要要求Karl-Anthony Towns去做退防、換防，甚至是高位干擾 And now you have all these different things that he’s got to mentally sort of process 這些不同的防守方式，他都得在場上迅速判斷並處理 Whereas against Boston, primarily it was like, “Here’s what we’re doing” 而對上波士頓時，防守策略就很單純：「我們就這樣守」 And even then, he sort of like dropped the ball in a few games — a few posses sions 即便如此，他在幾場比賽、幾個回合中還是出現了漏防 [DJ Zullo] I think you have to simplify things for him 我認為你必須幫他把防守簡化 But I just don’t know — against this Pacer offense, can you do that? 但我不確定，面對溜馬這樣的進攻體系，你能不能這麼做？ Like he might have to just have five or six things that he’s going to have to process on every possession 他每一個回合可能都得在腦中跑過五六種判斷 Like “Here are our principles, here’s what we’re trying to do” 例如「這是我們的基本原則、這是我們這回合要執行的策略」 But can he kind of go through the checklist in his head and then execute those ? 但他能否在場上真的跑完腦中的流程並且做出正確執行？ Nope 我覺得不太可能 [Benji] Right, so that’s the — 對，這正是重點所在—— [DJ Zullo] Right, so that’s the thing 對，這就是問題 And I agree with you, Benji 我贊同你的說法，Benji And that’s where I think it’s going to be very problematic for the Knicks 這正是我覺得尼克會出現大問題的地方 If you’re going to ask — and Allen had a tough time 如果你要要求Towns去做這些判斷——而連Jarrett Allen都很掙扎 [DJ Zullo] Yeah, it’s — it’s so hard 沒錯，這真的很困難 And I just — I don’t — I thought he impressed me offensively 我必須說，我認為他在進攻端的表現其實是讓人眼睛一亮的 In terms of scoring and producing in the ecosystem that was not designed to ta ke advantage of his skill set 在一個不是專為他量身打造的進攻體系中，他還是能拿分、做出貢獻 I thought he came out of that with some really good things he can carry over o ffensively 我覺得他從那樣的限制中，仍找出可以延續發揮的好習慣 [DJ Zullo] But since Game 1 of Detroit, I think the defensive performance from Towns has been really spotty at best 但從對底特律第一場開始，我認為Towns在防守端的表現頂多是勉強合格，有時還很不穩 定 And that — of all the things we’re talking about 而這件事——在我們討論的所有議題中 Like how is he holding up and dealing with all the different things he’s goin g to have to mentally navigate 關於他如何承受壓力並應對這麼多戰術任務 Saying nothing about the physical limitations 還不提他身體上的防守局限呢 Man, I don’t — I don’t know 老實說，我真的不知道他能不能勝任 I’m — I’m interested to see how he handles it 我會很有興趣觀察他怎麼應對 But I’m really concerned about it 但我對此真的很擔憂 [Benji] Caitlin? Caitlin？ [Caitlin Cooper] I have a lot of thoughts here 我這邊想法很多（笑） A lot of things have been said 剛剛大家說了很多重點 [Caitlin Cooper] So, blitz is not a good solution for the New York Knicks to play against Tyres e 先說結論：對紐約尼克來說，包夾Tyrese Haliburton不是好主意 It might look like it by the box score 從數據來看好像沒問題 And there might be some people that will be like “Tyrese only attempted five shots, this is terrible!” 你可能會看到有些人說：「Tyrese才出手五次，這太糟了！」 [Caitlin Cooper] I can tell you that when Tyrese passes out of a blitz 但我可以告訴你，當Tyrese面對包夾後傳球時 They are more effective than the number one pick-and-roll offense in the NBA b y a wide margin 溜馬整體進攻效率會遠高於聯盟最佳的擋拆球隊 So I don’t — I would not recommend that 所以我不會建議採用這種策略 I’ll just put it that way 就這樣說吧：別這麼做 [Caitlin Cooper] Switching is still the best thing to do against him 對付他最好的辦法仍然是換防 Weak-to-switch actually the best thing to do against him 從弱側發起的換防其實是對他最有效的策略 [Caitlin Cooper] The best thing to do against him is to use like Deuce McBride, face guard him the whole length of the court 最好的方式就是派像 Deuce McBride 這樣的球員全場貼身看管他 Try to force him left and then try to switch it 強迫他往左邊打，然後在適當時機進行換防 That is what I would say is still probably the best 我認為這仍然是最有效的方案 [Caitlin Cooper] That being said, this playoff run is the best that I’ve seen Tyrese be at att acking switches 話雖如此，這次季後賽是我看過 Tyrese 對換防應對得最好的一次 Not only just with how good he is at pre-reading — like a scram 不只是他對於「拆彈換防」（scram switch）這類提前預判的能力 And playing through the weak-side corner with his preemptive reads 還有他從弱邊底角提前觀察再做出行動的能力 [Caitlin Cooper] But also with his ability to drive those switches 還包括他突破換防球員的能力 By the end of Game 5, Jarrett Allen wasn’t on the floor anymore 到了第五戰結尾時，Jarrett Allen 都已經不能再上場了 Because they had bothered him enough 因為他們已經把他消耗得夠多了 [Benji] And when he’s making his step-back, Caitlin, it’s like literally impossible 而當他投進那種後撤跳投時，Caitlin，那真的幾乎無解 [Caitlin Cooper] I mean once he’s — and then he was making them late in that series 當他進入狀態，尤其在系列賽後段開始連投連進時 And it’s like, what do you do? 你根本不知道該怎麼防 Left or right crossover, now he’s in the paint 左邊右邊交叉運球，然後一下就切進禁區了 [Caitlin Cooper] That being said though, the Pacers scored 1.162 against the Knicks in drop thi s year 但話說回來，溜馬今年面對尼克的退防策略，場均每次進攻得分是1.162 So they absolutely cooked the Knicks with Karl Towns playing drop 也就是說，當Karl Towns打退防時，溜馬完全摧毀了尼克的防守 [Caitlin Cooper] So the one thing too is — and the defense was better for the Knicks in Game 5 against Boston 還有一點，尼克在對波士頓第五戰的防守表現是有提升的 But in Game 4, it was somewhat telling to me 但在第四戰，他們的表現讓我看出一些端倪 [Caitlin Cooper] Because when Tatum’s no longer available to play 當Tatum不能上場後 The Celtics had their highest volume of passes per 100 of any game in that ser ies 塞爾提克的每百回合傳球次數是全系列賽最高的一場 [Caitlin Cooper] The Knicks switched more than they had in any game in that series 而尼克那場比賽的換防次數也是整個系列賽中最多的 And they gave up 1.362 points per possession 結果他們每個回合被得了1.362分 [Caitlin Cooper] In part because the Celtics were running more movement actions to beat those s witches 其中一個原因，是塞爾提克開始用了更多跑位戰術來破解換防 It was more ghost screening 他們用了更多「空掩護」（ghost screen） It was more stack screens 還有重疊掩護（stack screen） [Caitlin Cooper] These are things that are very key elements of the Pacers’ offense 這些正好是溜馬進攻中非常關鍵的元素 Particularly the ghost screening stuff 尤其是空掩護這一套 That the Knicks seem to be somewhat confounded by 而尼克似乎對此頗為困擾 [Caitlin Cooper] So I guess my follow-up question to this would be 所以我接下來的問題是 Because I have not seen it happen in a game, but I’m guessing it likely has 雖然我沒在比賽中親眼看到，但我猜他們應該有做過 How often do they put OG Anunoby on the five? 他們會把OG Anunoby擺去防五號位的情況有多常見？ Would they consider putting OG on Myles Turner? 他們會考慮讓OG去守Myles Turner嗎？ Not enough 這種情況太少了 [Benji] Yeah, has it happened in this — so like, against the Horford–Porzingis lineu ps? 對，那這一輪有出現嗎？比如對上Horford和Porzingis搭配的陣容？ I mean, depending on how you want to define that 這也取決於你怎麼定義那些對位 They had OG at times on Porzingis and KAT on Horford 有時候他們會讓OG守Porzingis，讓KAT去守Horford But that’s not — you know, they’re both kind of stretch fives 但說真的，他們兩個其實都算是外圍型中鋒 [Benji] They don’t do it 他們其實並不常這樣做 They don’t do it 真的很少 They barely do it 幾乎沒這麼用過 [Benji] Now, early in the season there were a couple of matchups 不過在球季初，有幾場比賽的對位中 I’m trying to remember which one was like, “Oh, here they go, Tibs has OG on the five.” 我記得曾經有一場讓我想說：「喔喔，Tibs竟然讓OG去打五號位了。」 But it has barely happened 但那真的非常罕見 [Benji] And as much as I wonder about — I guess the other issue I have with that cros smatch 雖然我很想看到這種交叉對位，但我對這樣的配置還有一個疑慮 If Towns is on Siakam 如果Towns去守Siakam的話 I feel like Siakam is particularly effective at drawing fouls 我覺得Siakam特別擅長製造犯規 In the exact way that KAT is susceptible to committing them 而這正好就是Towns最容易犯規的那種情境 [Benji] It’s like the lunges, the quick stops 就像是突然加速、急停這種動作 Like, I just — there’s going to be a lot of hip checks 我真的覺得Towns會因此出現很多「撞人」的犯規 And Siakam, to his credit, is really good at kind of feeling that 而Siakam很厲害的一點就是他能感覺到這些動作的時機 And then lunging out and drawing those fouls 然後主動製造身體接觸來博得犯規 [Benji] It terrifies me 這點真的讓我很擔心 And he already had four fouls in every game against Boston 而且他對波士頓幾乎每場都背著四次犯規 Like, it is going to be an issue 這肯定會是個問題 He will be in foul trouble — whether we like it or not 不管我們喜不喜歡，他都會陷入犯規麻煩 [Benji] So maybe — maybe it doesn’t actually matter who he guards 所以也許最後他守誰都一樣，結果不會差太多 But the Siakam part of it scares me 但Siakam這點真的讓我有點怕 [Benji] The ability to shoot and then drive the closeout 他能先拉開空間投籃，然後再切入攻擊補防者 And then Towns trying to reconnect to the drive Towns要從後頭補上防守 Is like — just a recipe for fouling disaster 這整個過程簡直是犯規悲劇的劇本 [Benji] So I don’t — I just don’t think they’re going to go to it a lot for those reasons 所以我不覺得他們會大量使用這種對位組合，基於這些原因 And just — Tibs being Tibs 而且你知道的，Tibs就是Tibs（保守派） [Benji] But I don’t know — D, what do you think? 但我不確定啦，D，你怎麼看？ [DJ Zullo] I don’t think they’re going to go to it at all, to be honest with you 老實說，我認為他們根本就不會這樣做 [DJ Zullo] So I think we’re going to get sort of what we’ve been seeing 所以我覺得我們會看到他們延續之前的陣容配置 And it just puts a lot of pressure on Towns 而這就會給Towns帶來很大的壓力 To hold up in ways that he hasn’t consistently shown that he can do for a pla yoff series 讓他必須做出那些他在季後賽整個系列賽中從未持續穩定展現過的防守 [DJ Zullo] He does it in spurts 他偶爾能做到一點點 But again, there are times where you’ll get the fanbase screaming 但你還是會常常看到球迷在怒吼 “Why is he in drop? Why is he in drop?” 「為什麼他又在退防？為什麼不換防？」 [DJ Zullo] Well, because he just decided on that possession 這是因為他在那個回合自己做了決定 That he wasn’t going to get to the level of the screen 決定不跟到掩護者的高度去協防 And now he’s got to play drop 所以他只好後退 And you’re giving up Tatum open threes on a pull-up 結果就讓Tatum有空檔跳投 [DJ Zullo] So there’s so many times where he is actively — 所以他經常會—— He’s actively going against the designed scheme 他常常主動去違背教練的防守設計 In ways that you can see by how the person guarding the ball reacts 從球場上守球人驚訝的反應就看得出來 [Benji] I say he’s passively going against the designed scheme more than actively 我覺得他其實比較像是「被動地」在破壞防守策略，不是主動的 [DJ Zullo] Yeah — so that’s the — and it’s just — 對，所以這是問題，而且—— He mentally — it’s just hard for him to engage 他在心理層面很難長時間集中注意力 In a way that — where he’s locked in for 38 minutes a night 很難像其他人那樣，一場比賽能保持38分鐘的專注防守 [DJ Zullo] So that’s — that’s going to be the — where I think 所以我認為，這將是整個系列賽的—— Of all the swing moments of this series or swing performances 在所有可能左右勝負的時刻或球員表現中 Like how he’s guarding the ball as a screen defender is going to be huge 他作為擋拆防守者的表現會是非常關鍵的一環 [Benji] So Caitlin, assuming that’s not the case — assuming that OG doesn’t get any time 所以Caitlin，假設情況不是這樣——假設OG根本沒有被擺上去守五號位 Is there something you think the Knicks can do — anything? 你認為尼克還有其他什麼調整可以做的嗎？ [Benji] I mean, OG on the five to me is a good idea in a vacuum, at least in some part s of the game 我的意思是，在理論上、或者在某些時間點，讓OG打五號位其實是一個不錯的選項 I just don’t think they’re going to go there 但我就是不覺得他們真的會這樣做 [Caitlin Cooper] I actually don’t think it’s probably going to be that good of a solution 其實我也不覺得這會是一個多麼有效的方案 Because if they put OG on Myles Turner, they’ll just screen with Pascal inste ad 因為如果你把OG拿去守Myles Turner，溜馬只會改讓Pascal來做擋拆掩護 It’s like I said — they’ll just use Pascal as their screener more frequentl y 就像我剛說的，他們會更頻繁地讓Pascal來做掩護者 And Myles will just space to the ball-side corner 而Myles Turner就會拉開到靠近球的底角去拉空間 [Caitlin Cooper] Yeah, but the two things that I would say that you might have a chance with 不過我覺得還是有兩個方案可能有效 But I do not know how long it would take Tibs to be willing to do them 但我不確定Tibs要花多久才願意嘗試 [Caitlin Cooper] Is have a “change of heart,” quote-unquote 就是所謂的「改變初衷」 And start Deuce McBride instead of Josh Hart 讓Deuce McBride取代Josh Hart進入先發 [Caitlin Cooper] Because one way or another — no matter which way the Pacers start 因為不管溜馬怎麼開局 The Josh Hart possession is either going to be — what I think they might ulti mately get to Josh Hart的對位可能會變成——我認為他們最終會選擇的方式 Which is Myles Turner providing passive size at the basket 也就是Myles Turner在籃下提供被動的體型威脅 And roaming off, with Nesmith doing the Karl-Anthony Towns crossmatch 然後自己去補防，由Nesmith去對位Towns [Caitlin Cooper] But even if it isn’t that, then it’s going to be Pascal roaming off of him 但即使不是這樣，那也會是Pascal從他身上去補防 Which is Pascal’s most natural defensive role 而這正是Pascal最擅長的防守角色 [Caitlin Cooper] Or it’s going to be a hiding spot for Tyrese Haliburton 或者這會變成Tyrese Haliburton的藏身之地 Those are the three things that are possible if he’s in the starting lineup 只要Josh Hart還在先發陣容中，這三種情況都可能發生 [Caitlin Cooper] That becomes a little bit more difficult, as we saw in the series last year 但如果是換成Deuce McBride，就會比較難出現這些狀況，就像去年系列賽看到的那樣 If Tyrese is guarding Deuce McBride 如果Tyrese去守Deuce McBride He can’t do the whole “I’m going to show and recover” 他就不能用那種「佯裝協防再快速補位」的方式 And then just peel off to the perimeter 然後再輕鬆回外圍 With somebody else taking Josh Hart rolling to the basket 讓其他人去接手防守Josh Hart切入 [Caitlin Cooper] It’s a little bit harder to navigate like empty pick-and-pop actions 這讓溜馬更難防範像Brunson和McBride之間的空檔擋拆投射 Between Brunson and McBride if Tyrese is the screener defender 如果Tyrese是擋拆的防守者，那會讓他們防守起來吃力很多 So that alone gives you some incentive to do it 光是這點就值得Tibs考慮調整陣容 [Caitlin Cooper] But also like — as much as I respect OG Anunoby as a defender, which I do imm ensely 而且儘管我非常尊敬OG Anunoby的防守能力，我真的非常尊敬 I wanted him to play for the Indiana Pacers 我曾經還希望他能來溜馬打球 I don’t think he’s the ideal Tyrese Haliburton matchup 但我不認為他是對位Tyrese Haliburton的理想人選 [Caitlin Cooper] There’s a reason why Nick Nurse didn’t have OG Anunoby ever guard Tyrese Nick Nurse當初從不讓OG去守Tyrese是有原因的 Darko didn’t have OG Anunoby guard Tyrese Darko（Raptors現任教練）也從沒讓OG去守Tyrese [Caitlin Cooper] I think that if you can have somebody face-guarding Tyrese the full length of the floor 我覺得，如果你能派一個球員全場緊貼防守Tyrese Despite the fact that this did not work for Cleveland 儘管這招在克里夫蘭那邊失敗了 I think I would feel a little bit better 但我會覺得比較安心一點 [Caitlin Cooper] And as much as I like and appreciate Andrew Nembhard 雖然我很欣賞也很感激Andrew Nembhard It will shift more of the offense to Andrew Nembhard and to Myles Turner 這會讓更多進攻責任轉移到他和Myles Turner身上 [Caitlin Cooper] If that’s what you do — despite the fact that Andrew Nembhard and Myles Turn er 如果你選擇這樣的防守方式——儘管Andrew Nembhard與Myles Turner Are a top-four pick-and-roll combination right now 目前是全聯盟前四的擋拆組合 That’s how good they have been 他們真的打得非常好 [Caitlin Cooper] So I guess my long-term thing here is 所以我對這件事的長遠看法是 I don’t think there’s a lot of good answers for how you stop the Pacers offe nse 對於如何阻止溜馬的進攻，其實沒有太多好辦法 I really don’t 我真的這麼覺得 [Caitlin Cooper] And the one that I think is the main one 而我認為唯一可行的 Is something that the Knicks coach is very resistant to doing 偏偏就是尼克教練最不願意做的事情 [Benji] So it’s — you know, they actually did play the lineup in Game 6 for a certai n amount of minutes 不過他們在第六戰的確曾讓那套陣容上場幾分鐘 Which they hadn’t — I mean, I know I haven’t — I don’t have it in front o f me 他們之前幾乎沒這樣排過——我手上沒有數據 In terms of the total minutes that lineup has played in the playoffs 不過那套陣容在季後賽的總出場時間 With Deuce in Hart’s place — but it is very, very small 是讓Deuce McBride取代Josh Hart，但時間非常非常少 [Benji] And the regular season is very, very small 例行賽時也幾乎沒這樣排過 Despite it being the only true five-out lineup the Knicks can play 儘管這是尼克唯一真正能打的五外陣容 Which theoretically should unleash Karl-Anthony Towns to be his best self 理論上這可以讓KAT完全解放自己 Which you would think would be important 你會覺得這對球隊來說很重要 [Benji] Considering the investment you made in Karl-Anthony Towns when you traded for him 畢竟你在交易時為他付出那麼多代價 But they haven’t done it 但他們卻沒這麼做 [Benji] Um, and — and it would accomplish multiple things 而且，這樣的調整可以同時達成很多目的 Now, Hart’s been very good defensively in the playoffs 當然，Josh Hart在季後賽的防守表現真的很好 But you know, Deuce gives you that element of ball pressure 但Deuce McBride能帶來全場壓迫防守這個元素 Screen navigation the Knicks don’t really have on the roster outside of him 他是尼克陣中唯一擁有優秀擋拆穿越能力的球員 He is the best at it on the team 他是隊上最擅長這項技術的人 [Benji] You add the fact that you now actually force teams to make a decision 而且這樣一來，你會迫使對手做出艱難選擇 As to whether their center should or can or has to guard Karl-Anthony Towns 決定他們的中鋒是否應該、能不能，或必須去守KAT Because there’s shooting actually all over the floor around him 因為當場上四個人都有外線能力時 [Benji] But the Knicks just haven’t done it 但尼克就是遲遲不這麼做 Now maybe because they did it in Game 6 a little bit 也許第六戰小試牛刀之後 Maybe — maybe we’ll see more of it 我們會看到更多嘗試 [Benji] And I — I’ve said throughout the playoffs 我整個季後賽期間都在說這件事 It hasn’t happened yet because a lot of wild reasons 至今沒發生是因為各種奇怪的原因 And we’re all amazed the Knicks are even where they are 我們也都對尼克能走到這裡感到驚訝 [Benji] There’s going to come a point in a series 但這個系列賽會有個時刻出現 Where Tibs is going to actually have to ask himself Tibs會不得不問自己一個問題 If he must take Josh Hart off of the floor 他是否真的要把Josh Hart從場上撤下 [Benji] And it’s going to take — for him 對他來說 Because he loves Josh Hart as much as he does 因為他太愛Josh Hart了 And for a lot of good reasons 而且有很多正當理由 It’s going to take a lot of desperation 他會需要極大的壓力與危機感才會這麼做 [Benji] But I just feel like at some point 但我總覺得某個時間點 Whether it’s this series, whether maybe it’s the next 不管是這一輪，還是下一輪 At some point he’s going to have to actually make that decision 他終究得下這個決定 [Benji] And it just hasn’t happened yet 但目前還沒有發生 But it — it’s — it’s been — 但這一直都是—— [Benji] It’s been a problem in Knicks land for the whole season 這整季在尼克隊就是個老問題 In terms of that lineup getting very little play 就是那個五外陣容幾乎沒有任何上場時間 [Caitlin Cooper] Seven minutes, by the way, in the playoffs for that group 順帶一提，季後賽這套陣容總共只打了七分鐘 [Samson Folk] Big time sample size 真是超大量樣本啊（笑） [Benji] That’s wild to me 這真的太誇張了 [Caitlin Cooper] That’s wild 真的很瘋狂 [Benji] It’s insane 瘋狂到不可思議 [Caitlin Cooper] It doesn’t go around the whole season 整個賽季都是這樣 [Caitlin Cooper] It’s — it’s just — 真的就是—— [Benji] And the Knicks don’t play any zone either, do they? 而且尼克也完全不打區域防守，對吧？ [Caitlin Cooper] Zero 完全沒有 [Benji] Cause that’s really — that one out-of-bounds play they did 就只有那一次底線邊線發球時的佈陣 They had a 1-3-1 for one 那一球用的是1-3-1站位 [Caitlin Cooper] No, there was one in Game 6 also 不，還有一次在第六戰也用了 [Benji] Yeah, two total 1-3-1 zones against the baseline out-of-bounds 對，整個季後賽就只用了兩次1-3-1區域防守，還是邊線發球的時候 [Caitlin Cooper] But otherwise there’s been zero possessions total in the season 除此之外整季一個完整區域防守回合都沒有 [Caitlin Cooper] And the Pacers have figured some stuff out about that 不過溜馬其實也針對區域防守準備過幾招 But the offensive rebounding at the zone 但對區域防守來說，溜馬在進攻籃板上的表現 Was really the only reason they lost a game to Cleveland 幾乎是他們輸給克里夫蘭的唯一原因 [Caitlin Cooper] Otherwise that probably would have been a sweep 不然那系列可能會是場橫掃 [Samson Folk] But Samson, go ahead 不過Samson，你繼續說吧 [Samson Folk] A lot of you guys have been spending a lot of time shopping at the Raptor stor e 你們這群人最近都常常跑去逛暴龍隊商店吧 And it sickens me 我真是看了都要吐了（笑） [Samson Folk] These two teams — it sickens me, I have to say 這兩支球隊能打成這樣，我真的……唉，不得不說，我心裡很不是滋味（笑） [Benji] Yeah, yeah 哈哈哈，對對對 [Samson Folk] It’s fascinating, you know 但這真的很有趣 Like the most encouraging thing about the Knicks’ performance in Game 6 to me 就我而言，尼克第六戰表現最讓人鼓舞的地方是 Because Game 5 was a disaster 因為第五戰他們真的打得一團糟 [Samson Folk] Caitlin, to your point — in terms of navigating ghost screens, quick actions Caitlin，就像你說的，他們面對空掩護和快速移動的反應 That the Celtics suddenly realized they had to run 突然之間，塞爾提克才意識到這些戰術該用了 [Samson Folk] Of course, if the Celtics had been running that since Game 1 但如果塞爾提克從第一戰就這樣打的話 We wouldn’t be here right now 我們現在就不會坐在這裡討論了 [Samson Folk] I don’t know if it would have taken it to Game 7 也許那系列根本不會拖到第七戰 I don’t know what would’ve happened 也不知道會變成什麼樣子 But certainly, the Celtics win one if not both of Game 1 and 2 但至少第一或第二戰，塞爾提克應該會贏其中一場，甚至兩場全拿 [Samson Folk] If they realized isolating after a switch is not the only option 如果他們早就知道換防後不該只打單打，而有別的選擇 And we can run another ghost screen 像是多打一個空掩護 We can run two more ghost screens 甚至連打兩個空掩護 [Samson Folk] If you get the Knicks moving and making decisions 只要你能讓尼克隊的防線動起來、做出決策 That’s how you defeat them 那才是破解他們的方式 [Samson Folk] And the Pacers of course do that more than any other team in the league 而這正是溜馬比聯盟其他任何球隊都做得更好的地方 Which is why in some ways, it’s a very good matchup for the Pacers against th e Knicks defensively 這也是為什麼，從某些層面來看，這對溜馬來說是一個非常適合的對位 [Samson Folk] What I will say is Game 6 was probably the best I’ve seen the Knicks look 但我要說的是，第六戰應該是我看過尼克防守表現最好的一場 In terms of navigating those actions 特別是在處理這些跑位戰術時 [Samson Folk] They did learn from Game 5 他們確實從第五戰吸取了教訓 One of my favorite plays of the game was — actually ended up in a foul on the ground by Mikal Bridges 我最喜歡的其中一球，是Mikal Bridges最後被吹了一個地板犯規 [Samson Folk] But it was just an action between Derrick White and Jrue Holiday 但整個戰術非常精彩，是Derrick White和Jrue Holiday之間的一連串掩護跑位 Setting three or four screens in a row for each other 兩人互相幫對方設了三到四次掩護 Trying to get Brunson in the action 目的是想把Brunson捲入防守輪轉中 [Samson Folk] And the Knicks stayed — one they switched, one they stayed, another they swit ched 結果尼克隊一球留守、一球換防，然後再留守，再換防 Bridges ends up with the matchup and ends up on a foul on the ground 最後Bridges對到那個對位，雖然被吹犯規 [Samson Folk] But just to see them navigate four different actions in a row that way 但看到他們能這樣連續處理四個進攻動作 Was like extremely encouraging 真的讓人覺得非常鼓舞 [Samson Folk] There were three Spain actions run in Game 6 第六戰中對方跑了三次Spain擋拆戰術 The Knicks actually covered them all well 而尼克全部防下來了 [Samson Folk] Whereas in Game 5, the three Spain actions all resulted in wide-open catch-and -shoot threes 但在第五戰，這三次Spain擋拆全部讓對手有寬敞空檔三分出手 [Samson Folk] I hope that they’ve learned enough 我希望他們真的從中學到教訓 You know, it’s — it’s just — 你知道的，這真的—— [Samson Folk] I don’t know if that was a one-game just surreal performance defensively by t he Knicks 我不確定那是不是尼克隊單場防守突然大爆發的奇蹟 If it was the Celtics letting go of the rope a little bit 還是因為塞爾提克自己鬆懈了 If it was a combination of all those things 還是這些原因加在一起 [Samson Folk] I do think the Pacers present a whole different challenge though 但我認為，溜馬所帶來的挑戰，是完全不同層次的 And I worry how the Knicks navigate all their motion for sure 而我也真的很擔心，尼克該怎麼應對他們那一整套流動進攻 [Benji] So we’ll see — I wondered, because when I was watching back some 我們走著瞧吧——我之前回放比賽時有一個想法 Like, they ran that double drag for Derrick White 他們幫Derrick White設了一次雙重拖車掩護（Double Drag） And when it was the two-big lineup, and KAT had to step out 當時是雙大陣容，KAT就必須要跳出來協防 [Benji] Yeah 對 [Benji] How do you — like, how do you do that as the Knicks? 那尼克這邊要怎麼處理這樣的情境？ [Benji] Like, I do wonder about some stuff like that 我對這種情境特別有興趣 Obviously there’s the Jalen Brunson of it all — can flatten this in a number of ways with what he can create offensively 當然，有Jalen Brunson的存在，他可以用各種進攻方式來撫平問題 And there can be big games for the Knicks 而且他隨時都有可能爆發，帶動全隊 [Benji] But there are some, like, hard, hard questions defensively 但防守端還是有一些很棘手、很嚴峻的問題 There’s no question 這是無庸置疑的 [Benji] And when you can’t answer them 而當你沒有辦法回答這些問題時 Like to your point earlier about just like 就像你剛剛提到的 “Hey, let’s just play zone for a possession and see if we mess them up” 「嘿，我們打個一回合的區域防守看看，搞不好對方就亂了」 [Benji] Like, when even that’s not a question 但如果連這種選項都不在考慮之列 It’s just like — every single possession is just 那你每一回合都只能靠五個人硬守 A “How do we navigate a series of pick-and-rolls and ghost actions that the K nicks struggle to do?” 然後去應對尼克最不擅長處理的一連串擋拆與空掩護戰術 [Benji] Now I think having Mitch out there 當然，我覺得如果有Mitchell Robinson在場上 You know — how much do KAT and Brunson have to play together 那KAT和Brunson到底需要一起上場多久？ Just generally speaking, is a question that 這其實是一個很該討論的問題 [Benji] Tibs, of course, answers with “as much as possible” Tibs的答案當然是：「能一起上多久就上多久」 But you don’t have to answer that way necessarily 但其實你完全可以用不同的方式來處理這問題 [Benji] And the Celtics did this a lot — just bring both those guys, whoever those gu ys are 塞爾提克就常常這樣做——不管是誰，只要是Brunson和KAT，就都捲進擋拆 Bring them into the double drag 把這兩人都帶入雙重拖車掩護 Right, so make Brunson and KAT make decisions on possessions 這樣一來就逼Brunson和KAT在每個回合中都要做出防守決策 [Benji] And I’m sure the Pacers will do the same thing 我可以肯定溜馬也會這麼打 [Benji] And how do you — do you switch both of them? 那你該怎麼處理？是要兩個人都換防嗎？ Does Bridges/OG navigate through both and just fight his way through? 還是要靠Bridges或OG穿越所有掩護、硬扛到底？ And push guys and do what he does to get all the way through 去推擋拆者，執行他們平常那一套硬漢式防守？ [Benji] So you can stay home — but man, it’s a tough formula for the Knicks 讓其他人留在自己的防守位置……但說真的，這對尼克來說太難了 [Benji] And I wonder if you can just limit those two together a little bit more than t hey have 我在想，是否能減少KAT和Brunson同時在場的時間 If it helps you 這樣是否會對球隊有幫助 [Benji] And you can scram switch out one of them at times 你也許可以偶爾用「拆彈換防」把其中一人換出去 And just try to pre-switch stuff 或者事先安排好換防順序 And see if you can get away with it that way 看能不能用這種方式撐過對手進攻 [Benji] But I don’t know — DJ, any thoughts? 但我也不確定——DJ，你怎麼看？ [DJ Zullo] Um, yeah — I mean, that’s a central question to how they defend in this seri es 嗯，對，這是這輪系列賽中尼克防守的核心問題之一 [DJ Zullo] Um, and then you have, you know, the pace and the cross-matching 然後還有溜馬節奏快、交叉對位的問題 And getting matched up in semi-transition 還有在半轉換進攻中怎麼對位 [DJ Zullo] That was obviously a big issue in Game 5 這在第五戰明顯是一個大問題 They had a team meeting about it 他們甚至為此開了隊內會議 [DJ Zullo] They — but it’s like — it’s been a season-long hurdle 但這就像是一整季下來都無法真正克服的障礙 That this team can overcome for a game or two 這支球隊或許能在一兩場中做到改善 But history says they’re going to revert back to the same communication break downs 但從歷史來看，他們最後還是會回到溝通失誤的老毛病 That have plagued them through most of the year 這種問題整季都在困擾他們 [DJ Zullo] So it’s quite possible for the optimist to say 所以對樂觀派的人來說 “Listen, this team has figured something out” 「聽著，這支球隊找出了解法了」 [DJ Zullo] And if Game 6 is any indication, they can maybe take away some of the early of fense advantage 如果第六戰真的代表了什麼，他們也許可以削弱溜馬的早期進攻優勢 That the Pacers could theoretically have 也就是溜馬理論上最強的那段節奏 [DJ Zullo] But it’s — it’s a different — you guys know this better than anyone 但這是完全不同的挑戰——你們比我都清楚這點 It’s a different beast to do it against the Celtics for a single game 要在一場比賽中對上塞爾提克成功做到這些 Compared to this Pacer team for a potential long series 和要在一個系列賽裡長時間對抗溜馬是完全不同的難度 [DJ Zullo] So that — that to me, more than the halfcourt issues 所以對我來說，比起半場進攻的問題 Which are real and going to be prevalent 那些問題固然真實，且會一直存在 [DJ Zullo] How do they get matched up? 更關鍵的是，他們要怎麼在轉換中完成對位？ And are they just — you know — allowing easy catch-and-shoot rhythm threes 而他們會不會就這樣一直放掉節奏順的接球跳投三分？ And 4s to the rim? Obi to corner threes? Rim layups? 還有讓四號位輕鬆上籃？Obi射底角三分？空手切上籃？ [DJ Zullo] So what are — how are they mitigating those things? 所以他們要如何去遏制這些問題？ And if they can limit that, then I think they have a chance to defend well in the series 如果他們真的能控制住這些問題，那我認為他們在這輪系列賽防守上是有機會的 [DJ Zullo] But it just remains to be seen 但這一切都還有待觀察 [DJ Zullo] And you — I think you have a — there’s more evidence than not 而且我認為——比起看好他們 To say you should be skeptical of the Knicks doing that for a sustained period of time 你應該更懷疑尼克是否有能力長時間做到這些 [Caitlin Cooper] The one thing that might work in their favor 不過尼克可能唯一的利多 Is that I think that Brunson will guard Nesmith 就是我覺得Brunson會去守Nesmith [Caitlin Cooper] I really do 我真的這麼想 Because that happened more often than not in the regular season 因為這在例行賽中發生得非常頻繁 [Caitlin Cooper] And Nembhard ran more pick-and-roll than Haliburton against the Cleveland Cava liers 而且對騎士的系列賽中，是Nembhard打了比Haliburton還多的擋拆 [Caitlin Cooper] Nembhard was basically running point guard in the prior series 上一輪基本上Nembhard就像是控球後衛一樣在打 [Benji] Is that because of the face-guarding and trying to keep Haliburton out of — 是因為他們要全場貼防Haliburton，不讓他持球的關係嗎？ [Caitlin Cooper] Right, right 沒錯，正是這樣 And they just — they’ve liked some of the actions that they run 而且他們很喜歡某些進攻設計 With Tyrese starting away from the ball 讓Tyrese從無球狀態開始發動進攻 To try to be like a counter for that 作為對手貼防策略的反制 [Caitlin Cooper] But I — because of that 但也正因為如此 I just — I tend to think they’re not going to want Brunson 我認為他們不會希望讓Brunson Guarding that many on-ball screening actions 去守那麼多持球擋拆的回合 [Caitlin Cooper] If Nembhard’s running that much pick-and-roll again 如果Nembhard這一輪又會主導大量擋拆的話 So if it’s Nesmith 那如果讓Brunson去守Nesmith But it won’t — it won’t be much of Nesmith doing things on-ball 但基本上Nesmith是不太會自己持球進攻的 Except for like — like I said, in spot-ups, attacking closeouts, those types of things 他大概只會在接球投籃或攻擊補防者這種情境下動手 [Samson Folk] I have a question 我有個問題想問 So basically the way this conversation is going 基本上，照我們剛剛的討論走向來看 And the way that teams guard Hart 還有現在各隊防守Josh Hart的方式 You can infer that a Hart jumper is the desired outcome for a lot of teams 可以推斷出，很多球隊其實都希望Hart出手跳投 If they can shape it that way 如果他們能把防守導向那個結果的話 [Samson Folk] You guys — if you’re trying to, like 你們幾位——如果你們要嘗試去定義 What is the desired outcome you guys have for a Pacers possession? 你們理想中「溜馬一個進攻回合的結果」應該是什麼？ [Benji] I want to see Haliburton dancing 我會希望看到Haliburton自己在那邊「跳舞」（單打） [Benji] And I — it’s not a great solution 這不是一個什麼很好的防守策略 Because I mean — but to me, when the Knicks can avoid rotations 但對我來說，只要尼克可以不進入輪轉防守 And the Knicks can stay out of that 他們就能避免崩盤 And try to be helpers in passing lanes 改成去協防傳球線 No matter who — whether it’s on a switch, whether it’s on the initial match up 不管是靠換防，還是原始對位 [Benji] Like, I think the only way they can slow this team 我認為他們唯一能延緩溜馬進攻的方式 And I mean that both pace-wise and efficiency-wise 無論是節奏還是效率上來說 Is to force Haliburton to create advantages one-on-one 就是逼Haliburton單打創造優勢 [Benji] That’s how I see it 這是我的觀點 [Samson Folk] Yeah, and Rick Carlisle will be like 對，而Rick Carlisle可能會直接說： “Time out — that’s too many isolations” 「暫停，我們單打太多了」 [Benji] There you go 你看，就是這樣（笑） [Samson Folk] Right, so I think — I think that’s 沒錯，所以我覺得——這會是 I mean, that’s one of the number one things that’ll lead to a timeout 這大概是Carlisle最容易因此叫暫停的原因之一 [Samson Folk] They don’t get back in transition 像是他們轉換防守沒回來 They give up more than one offensive rebound on a play 或是被抓了兩次以上的進攻籃板 They’ve isolated twice in a row and they didn’t score 或是連續兩個回合打單打又沒得分 [Samson Folk] Timeout 直接叫暫停 [Samson Folk] Too many ISOs 「我們單打太多了」 There you go 沒錯啦（笑） [Benji] These — these are important things to clarify, for sure 這些真的都很值得釐清 It’s like — what do you attack, you know? 你就會開始思考：「我們要針對哪裡出手才對？」 [Benji] And the Hart — the Hart calculus is funny too 而關於Josh Hart，這個「計算題」也蠻有趣的 Because man, he’s been — once again, as Josh Hart finds a way to do 因為你看，他又做到了——這根本是Josh Hart的拿手戲 [Benji] He makes his threes in the playoffs 他在季後賽裡的三分球總是投得進 [Benji] And I know people hand-wave that 我知道大家都覺得那只是偶然 [Benji] He made five in Game 5 — five threes 他在第五戰進了五顆三分球 He’s five for nine 九投五中 Or five — and like, OK, you hand-wave it because 然後你可能會說「那只是一次例外啦」 Yes, Cornet was messing things up everywhere else 因為當時Cornet其他方面把局勢搞砸了 [Benji] But is there — is there a breaking point for a defense? 但防守方真的會因為這樣就有所改變嗎？ [Benji] And five for nine is — is great 五中九真的很準了 And he made — made a couple again in Game 6 他第六戰也還是有進幾顆 [Benji] How willing are you actually? 但問題是，你真的願意賭他一直這麼準嗎？ And what is the — what is the calculus there? 那你防守端要怎麼計算這個風險？ [Benji] So look — to Hart’s credit, he seems to do this every year 說真的，必須誇獎Josh Hart，他好像每年都會在季後賽突然準起來 Where he makes people ask questions 讓人們開始懷疑之前對他防守策略是否正確 [Benji] Nick Nurse in the Philadelphia series last year 去年對費城的系列賽，Nick Nurse就說過 Famously answered a press conference 他在記者會上很有名地說 He was like, “Yeah, we stopped playing that way 他說：「對，我們後來不那樣守了 Because Hart was making a bunch of threes.” 因為Hart三分一直投進。」 [Benji] And it — you know, Missoula I think is so principled 而Missoula這邊，我覺得他比較有原則性 And Missoula was never going to change the way he played 他從來不會因為對手投進幾球就改變防守策略 Because like, he just — this is how we play 因為對他來說，「這就是我們的打法」 And this is what we do 「我們就是這樣防守」 [Benji] Other coaches might be more flexible 其他教練可能會比較有彈性 In terms of how much is Hart punishing that 如果Hart持續懲罰這種放投策略的話 [Benji] Caitlin, do you think that — like, Carlisle Caitlin，你覺得Carlisle會怎麼處理？ If Hart comes out Game 1 and goes three-for-five 如果Hart第一戰又投三中五 Is there any change to the way they approach it? 溜馬會因此調整防守策略嗎？ [Caitlin Cooper] It all depends on how they start out 這要看他們開局的對位怎麼安排 [Caitlin Cooper] Because like I said, I will not be surprised in Game 1 因為就像我之前說的，如果第一戰他們還是照劇本走 If they stick to script 我一點也不意外 And it’s Turner on Karl-Anthony Towns 讓Turner去守KAT [Caitlin Cooper] Siakam on OG Siakam守OG Nembhard on Bridges Nembhard守Bridges Nesmith on Brunson Nesmith守Brunson And Tyrese on Josh Hart 然後讓Tyrese守Josh Hart [Caitlin Cooper] Which I will say that Tyrese — that won’t just be a hiding spot 不過我得說，Tyrese現在不只是「躲著不防守」的那種角色 He’s been more active defensively 他現在的防守積極多了 Where you can trust him to know when to cheat and where 你可以相信他知道什麼時候該放掉、該去補防哪裡 And into passing lanes 而且會去干擾傳球路線 [Caitlin Cooper] But I won’t be surprised if they go to that 所以如果他們這樣布陣，我一點都不意外 [Caitlin Cooper] I guess an interesting follow-up question to that though is 不過我想接著問一個有趣的延伸問題 If they progress beyond that and think, “No, this isn’t working” 如果他們後來發現：「這樣不行」 Because we need Nesmith to be able to press up closer to Brunson 因為我們需要Nesmith可以更靠近去壓迫Brunson [Caitlin Cooper] Because of what happened in Game 1 of the regular season 因為例行賽第一戰的對位經驗 We got to get somebody else roaming — whether that’s Myles, whether that’s — 他們可能想讓別人去補防，例如Myles Turner或者其他人 [Caitlin Cooper] Who would you be more happy for Tyrese to guard — Mikal Bridges or OG Anunoby ? 那你們會比較希望Tyrese去守誰？Mikal Bridges還是OG Anunoby？ [Caitlin Cooper] Who would you be like, “That’s an advantage for the New York Knicks,” more so? 你會覺得守誰是「對尼克比較有利的防守對位」？ [Benji] I mean, it’d probably be somewhat for both 其實這兩個對位應該都有利一些 But who would you be happier about? 但你會比較希望Tyrese守誰？ [Benji] It’s funny — Mikal 很好笑的問題——如果是Mikal Bridges的話 I don’t think it would be a great advantage for him, to be completely honest 老實說，我不覺得他能從這個對位中獲得太大優勢 [Benji] I think for Anunoby, physically — especially with getting some early post-ups and transition seals 我覺得OG Anunoby的身體條件比較吃香，尤其在一些轉換快攻或早期卡位中 I think he can take advantage of that 他可以有效地運用這些機會 [Benji] And especially off their, like, Chicago zoom action 尤其是他們的「Chicago Zoom」戰術 Where you can get him to his right hand 能讓他順勢用右手切入 [Benji] His drives are — Samson, you know this better than anyoneL的切入動作——Samson你最清楚His drives are always an adventureL的每次切入都像冒險一樣不太穩定（笑） [Benji]ut when he can get to his right hand蹵u要他能成功切到右手Especially with a size advantage[上身體優勢It’s usually pretty goodq常都能打出不錯的結果 [Benji]nd then you can throw in this little step-back from about the free throw lineM後他也能在罰球線附近來個後撤步跳投It’s reasonable efficiency thereR中率還算可以接受 [Benji]o I think with Anunoby’s finishing under the rim 所以我覺得Anunoby在籃下終結能力 Off two feet against a guy like Haliburton 對上一個像Haliburton這種防守者、跳起來終結 I think you can maybe get some good stuff out of that 應該能打出一些好球 [Benji] Hart and Towns are both really good at finding him in those situations 而且Hart和Towns在這種情況下都很擅長找到他 [Benji] So I think that’s where the Knicks could glean more advantage 我覺得這會是尼克可以爭取優勢的地方 [Benji] With Mikal, I feel like he gets to the same shot diet regardless of who’s def ending him 至於Mikal，我覺得他無論對手是誰，都會出手類似的球 It’s a matter of if the ball goes in or not 重點只是球有沒有進而已 [Benji] So I think it’s more of an OG thing 所以我認為Tyrese如果守OG，尼克的優勢會更明顯 Where you can maybe take some advantage 你可能可以多打一點這個點 [Samson Folk] Benji, what do you think? Benji，你怎麼看？ [Benji] Yeah, I — I agree 我同意 [Benji] And I think in the Celtics series, they didn’t really like any of the OG matc hups 而且在對塞爾提克的系列賽中，他們其實對OG的任何對位都不太滿意 [Benji] Because White and Holiday are such — are just bulldogs on the ball 因為White和Holiday都是防守端那種兇猛型球員 And can force turnovers on OG 他們會逼OG失誤 [Benji] To make it not worth kind of those little post entries in semi-transition 所以讓OG在半轉換進攻中接球背框進攻的投資報酬變低 [Benji] But Haliburton — they’ll go to it 但如果對手是Haliburton，尼克會比較願意嘗試 And especially if OG ends up on Haliburton on a switch 尤其是如果換防後讓OG守到Haliburton的話 [Benji] And he’s first out on transition 然後OG是第一個跑到前場的球員 Like, he will seal and he will get down there 他會卡位並壓到低位 And then make a play out of there with his little rip-throughs 接著用他的撕裂步做出進攻 [Benji] And he draws fouls — he’s pretty good at it 而且他還蠻會製造犯規的 [Benji] So I would say Mikal — my only hesitation there is that 所以我如果選Mikal的話，我唯一的猶豫是 Like Nesmith to Indiana, OG is the Knicks’ least intuitive screener 就像Nesmith在溜馬那樣，OG是尼克最不會擋人的球員 [Benji] And that’s what I was going to say 我剛好也想說這點 [Benji] And Bridges — I think maybe my favorite part of his offensive game 至於Bridges，我最欣賞他進攻端的一點是 He’s the best screener 他是全隊擋人做得最好的球員 [Benji] A tremendously smart screener and just mover generally — cutter 他不只擋人聰明，本身的跑位、空切也都非常聰明 [Benji] He just fills space 他很會填補場上的空隙 [Benji] I always call him the grease to the offense 我一直說他是這支進攻系統的潤滑劑 [Benji] Like, if things are stuck, he’ll make a little cut here 當進攻卡住時，他會切入一下 That just kind of greases the wheels for them 這個動作就能讓進攻重新運轉起來 [Benji] And creates something out of nothing 能無中生有，製造機會 [Benji] And that would be my only counter 而這會是我對剛剛「選OG好一點」說法的唯一反駁 [Benji] And I think it’s a good — and maybe it makes it a little closer 我覺得這點夠有份量，也許會讓兩種對位的差距拉近一些 [Benji] In terms of the difference between OG and Mikal 讓OG和Mikal這兩人的效益差異沒那麼大 [Benji] Because they run those two-man actions with Mikal 因為尼克會讓Mikal參與很多兩人戰術配合 [Benji] He’s slicing off, catching, getting into the paint, making a play 他能切出空檔、接球、殺進禁區、創造機會 [Benji] Whereas OG is probably more of just like 而OG比較像是那種 A roll-into-space and then catch-and-then-figure-it-out kind of guy 「順勢擋完後走位到空檔、接球，再想辦法打」的類型 [Benji] So that — that would be the — that would be the counter 所以這會是我支持讓Tyrese守OG而非Mikal的反方論點 [DJ Zullo] I agree with you 我同意你的看法 [DJ Zullo] Mikal — whether it’s a show or a straight switch Mikal不管你是展開包夾還是直接換防 He’s really good at screening underneath 他都很會從底線下方設擋 [DJ Zullo] And just staying under and slipping into space 然後在掩護完後溜進空檔 [DJ Zullo] And then as you mentioned, he’s much more dynamic finishing in that area 就像你說的，他在那一帶完成進攻的能力更具爆發力 [DJ Zullo] So I think that’s where it is interesting 所以我覺得這就是整件事有趣的地方 [DJ Zullo] If you’re going to require a host of screenings from one of those two players 如果你預期要讓這兩人其中之一設很多掩護的話 [DJ Zullo] Mikal — by leaps and bounds — is just 那Mikal顯然遠勝OG [DJ Zullo] I think he’s the best overall pure screener on the team 我覺得他是整支球隊最純粹、最有效率的擋拆者 [DJ Zullo] Because I don’t think Towns is necessarily great at it 因為我不覺得Towns的掩護做得特別好 [DJ Zullo] And Mitch has gotten better 而Mitch（Robinson）則是最近有進步 [DJ Zullo] Especially — just free — a big body to free up Brunson 特別是用他的大隻體型幫Brunson掩護出空檔 [DJ Zullo] I feel like he’s improved in that area 我覺得他在這方面的表現是有進展的 [DJ Zullo] But Mikal is really good at just maintaining low leverage 但Mikal很擅長用低重心控制對抗角度 [DJ Zullo] And then weaponizing that in space 然後在空間中把這種技巧轉換成戰術優勢 [DJ Zullo] So that would be — that would be the counter 所以這就會是支持讓Tyrese守Mikal的另一個論點 [DJ Zullo] So that’s — that’s a good thought 我覺得這是個很好的觀察 [DJ Zullo] To see if you can maybe take advantage of some of those like 看看能不能藉此善用一些像是 Really hard shows by Haliburton Haliburton那種高位快速show手干擾 [DJ Zullo] And get into some space with some advantage 然後藉機製造出有利的進攻空間 [Samson Folk] I would still — I think, because as you said 不過我還是會選OG，因為就像你剛才提到的 You know, the odyssey that an OG Anunoby drive can be OG Anunoby的切入路線常常像是一場冒險 Is typically when he has to change course 特別是當他需要改變進攻方向時 [Samson Folk] But — or like — Haliburton doesn’t have the physicality to necessitate that 不過Haliburton的身體對抗並不強，還不至於迫使他得改線 [Samson Folk] Like, I think the lines that OG will be able to take to the rim 我覺得OG在這樣的對位下能夠走到籃下的路線 Will be quite direct 會變得很直接 [Samson Folk] Whether — you know — and there’s some early work, post-ups, and stuff like that 不管是早期卡位，還是背框單打這類的進攻 [Samson Folk] But as — as you guys said, like, working to his right hand 但就像你們剛說的，只要讓他用右手進攻 It — it really would put pressure on the Pacers 真的會給溜馬帶來很大壓力 [Samson Folk] I think — to bring help 我覺得會逼他們要開始協防 [Samson Folk] And uh, I think probably I would trust the Pacers to try and sort things out 不過我還是會比較信任溜馬有能力去處理這種對位情境 With Tyrese guarding in space and trying to be like predictive 由Tyrese在空間中防守，試圖預判對手走向 [Samson Folk] Uh — off of Mikal than — than OG 如果是防Mikal，我覺得他會更輕鬆一點，防OG就比較難 [Samson Folk] But I mean, the screening aspect of it concerns me a bit 不過我也對擋拆這一塊有點擔心 [Samson Folk] Simply because of Game 5 last year 這純粹是因為去年第五戰 When Mikal started screening as much as he did 當Mikal開始大量參與掩護時 [Samson Folk] Tyrese ended up guarding more screens than he ran screens as the pick-and-roll ball-handler 結果Tyrese被捲入掩護的次數，比他自己打擋拆的次數還多 [Samson Folk] So like, I think an aspect of this for both teams is 所以我覺得這對兩隊來說都是一個重點 You might have to guard Brunson by forcing him to guard 你可能需要「以攻為守」對待Brunson，逼他參與防守 [Samson Folk] And you might have to guard Tyrese by forcing him to guard 也一樣要用讓Tyrese去防守來壓制他 [Samson Folk] And another dynamic — both of these teams were a lot more willing throughout the regular season 還有一個因素就是，這兩隊在例行賽中其實都願意 To be like, “You know what? We’re going to switch with Brunson and let him s ink or swim.” 「你知道嗎？我們就讓Brunson去換防吧，看他自己能不能撐住」 [Samson Folk] And “We’re going to switch with Tyrese and let him sink or swim.” 或是「我們就讓Tyrese去換防，看他表現如何」 [Samson Folk] I think that theory is going to get tested 我覺得這種想法會在這系列被考驗 [Samson Folk] Because I don’t think either team is going to be real thrilled 因為我不覺得這兩隊其中任何一方會真的樂於 To switch Jalen Brunson directly onto Tyrese 讓Brunson直接去守Tyrese [Samson Folk] Or to switch directly — certainly not — simply onto Brunson 或是讓Tyrese直接被換到去守Brunson，那更不可能 [Samson Folk] I think that — that — that will get tested 我認為這樣的策略會被對手不斷針對、挑戰 [Samson Folk] How much they’re willing to do that 就看他們到底願不願意做出這種換防 [Samson Folk] Again, especially with like the — just the wear and tear on Brunson 尤其是考量Brunson在整場比賽要承受多大的體力消耗 To bring the basketball up 他還得負責帶球過半場 [Samson Folk] And now to ask him to, like, play a heavy switch scheme 如果你又要他去承擔大量換防 [Samson Folk] He’s going to play 40 minutes at least 他至少要打40分鐘 That is — that is a gauntlet, man 那根本就是一場身體極限挑戰 [Samson Folk] So yeah, we’ll see 所以，是啊——我們走著瞧吧 [Benji] I thought the Celtics bailed him out a little bit 我覺得塞爾提克在某種程度上有點放過了他（Brunson） [Benji] There was a lot of, like, elbow jumpers from Jaylen 那系列賽裡，Jaylen Brown 有很多肘區的跳投 [Benji] There was a lot of, like, settling on the Brunson 很多回合都只是簡單地選擇投籃，並沒有真的去攻擊Brunson這個點 [Benji] It is like — you know, this is not a podcast about the Celtics 說實話，這又不是一集在講塞爾提克的節目（笑） [Benji] Which — that team is going to obviously look very different next season 而且他們下季肯定會有很大的變動 [Benji] But um, look — DJ and I are, like, extremely surprised to be here 但說真的，我跟DJ都很驚訝尼克能走到這裡 [Benji] And I think if — if there’s a primary reason that we’re here 我想，如果你要說我們為什麼能在這裡 It’s the Celtics letting the Knicks off the hook on the defensive end 最大原因就是塞爾提克在防守端沒有真正壓迫尼克 [Benji] It’s just — it was — I think the theme of the series 整個系列賽給人一個感覺就是 With the exception of Game 5 除了第五戰之外 [Benji] Was just the willingness to isolate the first switch 整體來說他們太願意只打第一個換防後的單打 [Benji] And — and to your point — just, like, bail the Knicks out 而且就像你說的，這根本是在幫尼克解套 [Benji] And not make them make decisions 根本沒逼他們整體輪轉做出艱難判斷 It’s just remarkable 這真的很誇張 [DJ Zullo] So here — the advantage, I mean 所以這也讓我們看到—— To the Knicks’ credit, it was, you know 尼克值得稱讚的是 When you have Mikal Bridges and OG Anunoby in heavy gap help 當你場上有Bridges跟OG Anunoby兩人在防守縫隙中站位補位時 [DJ Zullo] It is a lot to sort of navigate 這樣的防線很難攻破 [DJ Zullo] Especially when you are not a great passing team 尤其當你不是一支傳導非常流暢的球隊時 [DJ Zullo] So that’s where the Celtics — yeah 所以這就是塞爾提克的問題所在 [DJ Zullo] It’s part their deficiencies as an offense 這部分也要歸咎於他們進攻本身的缺陷 [DJ Zullo] To how to navigate that 他們不知道該怎麼破解那種防守布局 [DJ Zullo] But also, I think the Knicks were pretty — 但同時我覺得尼克這邊也表現得很好 It was the first time we really saw them unleash 這是我們第一次看到他們徹底釋放 Maybe in a way we didn’t necessarily assume before the season started 一種我們在開季前根本沒預料到的防守模式 [DJ Zullo] But unleash these wings 他們把這些側翼球員的能量釋放出來了 [DJ Zullo] In terms of really putting the pressure on them 讓他們去對對手施加巨大壓力 To show their length 展現臂展優勢 Be big 站位拉開寬度 [DJ Zullo] Be in gaps 填補防守縫隙 Make them make decisions 讓對手難以抉擇 [DJ Zullo] And then you obviously — we saw the Celtics being really unable to do it 而我們也看到塞爾提克根本沒辦法破解這一套 [DJ Zullo] If they weren’t driving the switch, getting into the paint 如果他們不是直接攻擊換防點，切入禁區 [DJ Zullo] They weren’t able to generate good looks out of it 他們就沒辦法創造出理想的出手機會 [DJ Zullo] The Pacers are obviously, as we’ve talked about 但溜馬顯然，如我們之前說的 [DJ Zullo] Like a different beast 是完全不同的對手 [DJ Zullo] In terms of their processing ability 不管是在整體進攻邏輯或戰術處理能力上 Especially Haliburton at the point of attack 特別是在進攻發動點的Haliburton [DJ Zullo] So there’s — it’s going to be a different area 所以這會是完全不同的挑戰領域 A different problem — probably a tougher problem 而且可能會是個更難解決的問題 [DJ Zullo] As good as the Celtics are 即便塞爾提克整體實力不俗 It’s — this is a tougher test, I think, for the Knicks’ defense 我認為，對尼克防守來說，這會是一個更嚴峻的考驗 [Benji] And the Knicks were able to force a lot of turnovers on Brown and Tatum 而且尼克當時能從Jaylen Brown和Jayson Tatum身上製造很多失誤 [Benji] And as we know from Caitlin’s brilliant work 而如同我們從Caitlin精彩的分析中知道的 You’re not turning Haliburton over 你是不太可能從Haliburton身上製造失誤的 [Benji] ‘Cause he — he’s just good 因為他真的太穩健了 [Benji] And he doesn’t turn the ball over 他幾乎不會失誤 [Benji] And despite being a high-risk passer 即使他常常做些高風險傳球 [Benji] Which — what do you call it, Caitlin? 這個你怎麼稱呼來著，Caitlin？ [Benji] You had a word for it in your article that I’m forgetting 你在你的文章裡有一個很棒的詞，我一時想不起來 [Caitlin Cooper] The — 那是—— [Benji] Or — or the title of your article 或是你文章的標題 [Caitlin Cooper] The Immaculate Exception 「無瑕的例外」（The Immaculate Exception） [Benji] There it is 對，就是這個 [Benji] The Immaculate Exception 「無瑕的例外」 [Benji] So we’re going to have to handle the immaculate exception 所以我們得設法應對這位「無瑕的例外」 [Benji] For at least a four-game series 至少要對付他四場比賽 [Benji] And at most a seven-game series 最多可能七場 [Benji] And we will see how long it goes 我們就等著看這系列能打多長 [Benji] And so before I let you guys go — because this has been awesome 在讓大家離開之前——因為今天這集真的很精彩 [Benji] And I — I really appreciate you allowing us to pick your brains 我非常感謝你們今天願意分享你們的見解 [Benji] It’s been an awesome conversation 這是一場很棒的對話 [Benji] I’m going to go around the table here 現在我要請每個人輪流回答 [Benji] And I’m going to force you to make a prediction 我會強迫你們做出預測（笑） [Benji] Because I stink 因為我自己不太敢預測（笑） [Benji] And I’m also going to ask for one more short observation 另外也請你們再補一個小觀察點 [Benji] That we haven’t talked about 是我們剛剛還沒提過的 [Benji] Any — any little skill from a certain player that might make a difference 可以是某位球員某項技能，可能會產生影響的 [Benji] We barely talked about the Pacers’ bench 我們其實幾乎沒提到溜馬的板凳 [Benji] So maybe there’s something there 也許你們可以從那裡補充 [Benji] Just a quick observation — something to look out for for the folks at home 一個簡短的小觀察，給觀眾們注意的重點 [Benji] So a prediction — and then one more observation 所以——請給出你們的系列賽預測，然後補充一點觀察 [Benji] Caitlin, you start us off Caitlin，妳先來吧 [Caitlin Cooper] Sure, put the pressure on me to be the one that goes out on a limb first 好啊，讓我第一個冒險講預測，壓力真大（笑） [Caitlin Cooper] I will say that the Knicks’ offensive rebounding is a concern 我必須說，尼克的進攻籃板確實是一個讓人擔心的點 [Caitlin Cooper] The fact that the Pacers don’t have super clear-cut answers 再加上溜馬對尼克兩大主攻點目前也沒有明確的防守解法 Against their two primary scorers is a concern 這也是一個隱憂 [Caitlin Cooper] However, I’m going to err on the side of optimism 但我決定站在樂觀這一邊 [Caitlin Cooper] And pick Pacers in six as the outcome of this series 我預測溜馬六場晉級 [Caitlin Cooper] Can’t believe I’m saying that at this point in time 我自己都有點不敢相信我會這麼說（笑） [Caitlin Cooper] Because I would have picked the Knicks to beat them a year ago 因為如果是一年前，我一定會選尼克贏 [Caitlin Cooper] I did pick the Knicks to beat them a year ago 我當時就是這麼預測的 [Benji] We did! 我們那時候三個人都是！（笑） [Caitlin Cooper] Yes, yes — all three of us 對，沒錯，我們三個當時都選了尼克 [Caitlin Cooper] I felt confident in that 我當時還很有自信呢（笑） [Benji] Smart folks we are 我們那時候「自以為」很聰明（笑） [Caitlin Cooper] Yeah 對啊 [Caitlin Cooper] And then my follow-up will be a tiny thing 接下來我補充一個小觀察點 [Caitlin Cooper] I’ve been looking at bench players 我最近有觀察一些板凳球員的表現 [Caitlin Cooper] And who could potentially — this could be, you know, a Jarace series 看看誰有可能在這輪系列賽被啟用——也許是Jarace Walker這樣的角色 [Caitlin Cooper] This could be a Ben Sheppard series 也可能是Ben Sheppard能發揮的系列 [Caitlin Cooper] This could be a Jarace series again 也有可能Jarace會再次獲得上場空間 [Caitlin Cooper] Because they do have one other person that they could throw at Brunson 因為溜馬其實還有一位可以拿來守Brunson的球員 [Caitlin Cooper] TJ McConnell has fallen off a little bit TJ McConnell的防守效率近來稍微下滑了 [Caitlin Cooper] With his point-of-attack defense 特別是在防守第一線持球人這塊 [Caitlin Cooper] Since he was also pegged as the Brunson stopper — wrongfully, in my opinion, a year ago 畢竟他去年曾被誤認為是Brunson剋星（笑） [Caitlin Cooper] However, Jarace has a lot more length 但Jarace的臂展更長 [Caitlin Cooper] And I thought very quietly for a few possessions in the one game 而且我記得有一場比賽中，有幾個回合很安靜地 That the Pacers did win during the regular season 就是那場溜馬在例行賽贏下的比賽 [Caitlin Cooper] I was like, “Oh — he just sat on two of Brunson’s counters.” 我當下的想法是：「欸，他剛剛完全吃掉了Brunson的兩個反擊招」 [Caitlin Cooper] That — that could be something 這也許是一個潛在變數 [Caitlin Cooper] So they at least have one extra body 所以他們至少還有這樣一個備用人選 [Caitlin Cooper] That I’ll be watching 我會特別觀察他 [Caitlin Cooper] As to somebody else that they could throw out there 看看他會不會被派上場試試看守Brunson [Caitlin Cooper] We’ll see how much Carlisle trusts him in that type of a role 就看Carlisle會不會信任他扮演這樣的角色了 [Benji] Awesome 太棒了 [Benji] Samson? 換你了，Samson？ [Samson Folk] Uh, the thing I’m looking for is 嗯，我關注的一件事是—— [Samson Folk] I covered Pascal and OG as they won a championship 我當年報導過Pascal和OG奪冠的那一年 [Samson Folk] I covered — like, I’ve talked to both the guys 我也跟他們兩個都聊過不少次 [Samson Folk] I know both the guys 我算是很了解他們 [Samson Folk] Uh, Kyle used to call them his beloveds Kyle Lowry以前都叫他們「我的寶貝們」 [Samson Folk] And so this — in Toronto — is known as the Beloved Bowl 所以這場系列賽在多倫多圈內，有人戲稱為「寶貝內戰」(Beloved Bowl) [Samson Folk] So we’ve talked about — we like 我們剛剛其實也有討論過 At no point during this conversation are we going to be like 整場對話我們從來沒說過一句： “How do you attack OG Anunoby?” 「你要怎麼針對OG Anunoby進攻？」 [Samson Folk] Because that’s — that’s not what an offense wants to do — ever 因為這根本就不是任何球隊會想嘗試的進攻策略（笑） [Samson Folk] However, I assume there’s going to be some possessions where — 不過我猜總還是會有一些回合 It’s not — not really Pascal guarding OG too often 雖然不會太常出現Pascal守OG的對位 [Samson Folk] But Pascal will try to score on OG 但Pascal總還是會試著在OG面前得分 [Samson Folk] And I am so — I’ve watched it a lot in practices 而我真的——我在過去很多練球時看過這個對決 [Samson Folk] And OG always had better practices than Pascal 而且幾乎每次都是OG表現得比較好 [Samson Folk] And we didn’t get to see it that much last year 去年我們沒太多機會看到這個對位發生 [Samson Folk] I really want to see how that goes 這次我真的很想看看到底會怎麼樣 [Samson Folk] And also, just for villainous reasons — 還有，出於一點點壞心的理由（笑） [Samson Folk] Pacers in seven 我預測溜馬七場晉級 [Samson Folk] Tyrese in the Garden — again 讓Tyrese又一次在麥迪遜花園大放異彩 [Samson Folk] Some sort of legacy there, I guess 這也算是一種傳奇的延續吧（笑） [Benji] Just kill me now, dude 拜託直接殺了我算了啦兄弟（笑） [DJ Zullo] Um, yeah — thing to watch 嗯，好的，我的觀察點是 [DJ Zullo] You know, Deuce McBride went 12 for his last 24 on threes 你知道的，Deuce McBride 最近 24 次三分出手進了 12 球 [DJ Zullo] He started to make shots in the Boston series 他在對上塞爾提克的系列賽中開始開火了 [DJ Zullo] To go along with his defense 加上他本來就有的防守能力 [DJ Zullo] To go along with what he brings as a floor spacer 還有他作為外線拉開空間的價值 [DJ Zullo] He was always — his actual individual performance 他以前的個人進攻表現其實一直都不太穩定 [DJ Zullo] Was always transcended by his impact in the lineups that he played in 但他在場上的整體陣容效益一直都很好 [DJ Zullo] But finally started to make shots 但他現在終於開始把球投進了 [DJ Zullo] I think it’s huge for the team that is only playing seven guys 對於一支目前只用七人輪替的球隊來說，這非常關鍵 [DJ Zullo] So hopefully he can continue that level of shooting 所以我希望他能把這種手感維持下去 [DJ Zullo] And uh — Benji, I’m glad you’re going last here Benji，還好你是最後一個說預測的（笑） [DJ Zullo] Because this is going to be three for three 因為現在已經有兩個人選了溜馬，我就是第三個（笑） [DJ Zullo] I’m picking the Pacers 我也選溜馬 [DJ Zullo] And I think they’re going to — I can’t — I can’t pick them in seven 但我沒辦法說他們會打到第七戰 [DJ Zullo] Because I don’t want to do that to myself 因為我不想讓自己經歷那種煎熬（笑） [DJ Zullo] So I’m gonna pick them in six 所以我選溜馬六場晉級 [DJ Zullo] It’s — I don’t know how the Knicks — at seven guys 我真的不知道尼克靠七人輪替要怎麼撐過 Manage a long, tough, physical, mentally draining series 這種長期、高強度、身心俱疲的系列戰 [DJ Zullo] Against this team 尤其是對上這種節奏快、進攻兇的球隊 [DJ Zullo] And it’s going to break my heart again 這一定又會再度讓我心碎 [DJ Zullo] But — Pacers in six 但——溜馬六場晉級 [Benji] Did you say seven guys? 你剛說七人輪替對吧？ [Benji] ‘Cause I haven’t even talked about Precious Achiuwa yet 因為我還沒提到Precious Achiuwa耶（笑） [Samson Folk] Absolutely — shall we? Let’s! 沒錯，那我們來談談吧！（笑） [Benji] Shall we? Shall we? 來，我們要開始討論Achiuwa了嗎？（笑） [Benji] Is he the eighth guy? 他會是第八人嗎？ [Benji] But I mean, look — if you want some switchability on Haliburton 但說真的，如果你想要找個能跟Haliburton換防的人 [Benji] Now if you play him with Josh Hart — Tibs, I will physically — 但如果你把他跟Josh Hart放一起用，Tibs，我真的會—— [Benji] I will go over there and I will find you 我會親自去找你理論的（笑） [Benji] Do not play him with Josh 千萬別把他跟Josh Hart同時擺在場上 [Benji] I’ll send him a thank you card if he — 但如果他沒這麼做，我會親自寄感謝卡給他（笑） [Benji] But if there’s foul trouble — I mean, he did 但如果真的有犯規麻煩要應急——我意思是，他確實 [Benji] Very, very few spot minutes against the Celtics 對塞爾提克的時候有打過幾分鐘的零星時間 [Benji] It’s not crazy to think he’ll see some minutes here 所以在這輪系列賽看到他上場其實也不意外 [Benji] With foul trouble — slash, hopefully not an injury, but whatever 也許是因為有人犯規過多——當然希望不是因為受傷啦 [Benji] I know Samson will be thrilled if that happens 我知道Samson會很開心看到他上場（笑） [Benji] I’m so glad that Caitlin touched on TJ McConnell 我很高興Caitlin剛剛有提到TJ McConnell [Benji] Because Knicks fans all over the world who are watching this 因為現在全世界的尼克球迷看到這個節目 [Benji] Are going to be very upset 肯定都會很不爽 [Benji] That we haven’t delved in on one of the classic Knicks killers of the last 10 years 因為我們居然沒深入討論這位過去十年經典的「尼克殺手」之一 [Benji] TJ McConnell 就是 TJ McConnell [Benji] Um, and I guess — you know, just generally speaking 另外，我想補充的是一個比較整體的觀察 [Benji] The substitution patterns is kind of something I’m looking out for 我會特別關注兩邊的換人輪替策略 [Benji] Because Tibs has a tendency to leave those starters out 因為Tibs（Thibodeau）有個習慣，就是讓先發球員長時間留在場上 [Benji] Especially in the third quarter 特別是第三節的時候 [Benji] For the first six, seven, eight minutes 有時連打六到八分鐘都不換人 [Benji] And man, if the Pacers are subbing in 兄弟，要是這時候溜馬開始換上替補 [Benji] And McConnell’s bringing a wave McConnell上來帶一波攻勢 [Benji] And Obi’s bringing his pace 然後Obi Toppin用他那招牌節奏推進 [Benji] The way those guys can play — and you throw bodies 他們那些板凳球員能持續換上來消耗主力 [Benji] I think Tibs has to be — even if it’s seven guys, which it might be 我認為Tibs就算真的只打七人，也要有點彈性 [Benji] I think it’s got to be earlier 他得提早做輪換 [Benji] You can’t leave lineups out there 你不能一直放同一套陣容在場上死撐 [Benji] You can’t not have fresh blood out there 你不能讓場上沒有新鮮腿力來對抗溜馬的節奏 [Benji] To deal with the Pacers’ pace 不然真的沒法應付溜馬的快節奏 [Benji] So I am watching out for the substitution patterns 所以我會特別注意他們的換人策略 [Benji] How does Tibs handle that Tibs會怎麼應對這個問題 [Benji] Keeping his guys somewhat fresh 要如何讓他這些主力球員保持足夠體力 [Benji] Against a fresher, deeper basketball team 去對抗一支更有深度、輪替更完整的球隊 [Benji] And — prediction 然後，最後是我的預測 [Benji] I’ll take Knicks in seven 我選尼克七場晉級 [Benji] Because I’m a loser homer 因為我就是個尼克的死忠（笑） [Benji] And I want to go out on a limb 而且我想做個有點瘋狂的選擇（笑） [Benji] So I’m going Knicks in seven 所以我押尼克七場勝出 [Benji] And we will see how it goes 我們就拭目以待吧 [Benji] So anyway, this has been amazing, guys 總之，今天這場對談真的非常精彩，各位 [Benji] Thank you — all three of you — for being here 謝謝你們三位願意來參加這次的節目 [Benji] That’s Caitlin Cooper, of course, from Basketball, She Wrote 這位當然就是 Caitlin Cooper，來自 Basketball, She Wrote [Benji] If you’re not a subscriber — become a subscriber 如果你還沒訂閱她的專欄，現在就訂下去 [Benji] If you’re a Knicks fan — you should always be a subscriber 如果你是尼克迷，那你更應該全年訂閱她的專欄 [Benji] Because it’s the best basketball content out there 因為她的內容是最頂尖的籃球分析之一 [Benji] If you’re a Knicks fan who’s not always going to be a subscriber 如果你不是固定訂閱的尼克球迷 [Benji] Then subscribe for the series 那至少這輪系列賽期間訂一下 [Benji] So that you have the best opposing view of this series that is out there 這樣你才能看到最深入、最有價值的對手觀點分析 [Benji] So if it’s short-term money — please do that 就算只是短期投資，也非常值得 [Benji] Subscribe to Basketball, She Wrote 去訂閱 Basketball, She Wrote 吧 [Benji] Samson — from Raptors Republic Samson，來自 Raptors Republic [Benji] Am I missing another publication or platform, Samson? 還有其他你在寫稿的平台我沒提到的嗎，Samson？ [Benji] I don’t want — I want to be careful 我想確認一下，免得漏掉什麼 [Samson Folk] No, I’m — I’m very loyal to ours 沒有啦，我現在忠誠地專注在我們自己的平台 [Benji] Samson’s the best there is covering the Raptors Samson 是目前報導暴龍隊最頂尖的分析師 [Benji] And has been amazing covering the Pacers as well 而且這輪他對溜馬的分析也非常精彩 [Benji] Samson, we’re gonna have a conversation soon about RJ Barrett’s offseason Samson，之後我們再來聊聊 RJ Barrett 的休賽期該怎麼辦（笑） [Benji] But we don’t have to — we don’t have to do that now 但那我們就等下一集再聊，不用現在講（笑） [Benji] There are some fascinating questions in Toronto 現在多倫多那邊其實也有不少令人好奇的問題 [Benji] Who didn’t — didn’t do very well in the lottery, unfortunately 可惜的是，他們這次樂透籤運氣實在不怎麼樣 [Benji] For the folks up north, dude 對北邊的朋友來說，真的是一大打擊 [Benji] And you all know DJ Zullo very, very well 至於 DJ Zullo，各位應該都已經非常熟悉了 [Benji] I don’t need to say any more about him 我就不用多介紹了 [Benji] But guys, this has been amazing 總之，今天這場節目真的超棒 [Benji] And I look forward to talking to you guys more throughout the series 我期待在這系列賽進行期間能再和你們多聊聊 [Benji] It should be a lot of fun 應該會很精彩很有趣 [Benji] Enjoy the games, everybody 大家好好享受比賽吧 [Benji] This has been a KFS X’s and O’s show 這是本集 KFS X’s and O’s 節目 [Benji] Oh — we should plug our Patreon, DJ 喔對了，DJ，我們應該推廣一下我們的 Patreon（笑） [Benji] We have an opportunity 這是一個好機會 [Benji] If you’re a Pacers fan watching this 如果你是溜馬迷，正在看這個節目 [Benji] And you want to deal with the best Knicks content out there 然後你想看最好的尼克球隊內容分析 [Benji] For the series and beyond 不只是這輪系列賽，還包括未來的賽季 [Benji] Please sign up for the Brunson Tier — the Knicks Film School Patreon 請加入我們 Knicks Film School Patreon 的 Brunson Tier 層級 [Benji] You get all of my and DJ’s work 你可以看到我和 DJ 所有的分析與內容 [Benji] We think it’s good 我們自己覺得內容是很不錯的（笑） [Benji] We hope you’ll hang out with us 我們也希望你會加入一起參與討論 [DJ Zullo] It is good — I subscribe to it 真的很好，我自己都有訂閱（笑） [DJ Zullo] It’s good 真的值得 [DJ Zullo] It’s the best Knicks content out there 絕對是目前最好的尼克相關內容 [Benji] I will — I will return the compliment and the favor 我會記得回送你這份稱讚與支持（笑） [Benji] We appreciate that 我們非常感謝 [Benji] So yeah, this has been the KFS X’s and O’s show 好啦，今天就是這集的 KFS X’s and O’s 節目 [Benji] With Caitlin and with Samson 由 Caitlin 與 Samson 一起參與 [Benji] Presented by Fanatics Sportsbook 由 Fanatics Sportsbook 贊助播出 [Benji] It’s been a pleasure, guys 真是榮幸與各位共度這一集 [Benji] Have fun this series 祝大家好好享受這個系列賽 [Benji] Talk to you guys soon 我們很快再聊 （全片翻譯完畢） 以下是我整理出的十大觀戰重點 ： 一、Nesmith 要守誰？ 　　若由 Nesmith 去守 Brunson，可以有效延後發動時間並增加壓迫性，但可能過早陷 入犯規麻煩。若轉去守 Towns，雖然體型略小，但反而能干擾 Towns 的背框節奏，迫使 他改打面框。預測 G1 溜馬仍維持 Turner 守 Towns 的原始配置，真正的交叉對位可能 要等到 G2 才會啟動。 二、Towns 面對矮個防守者，進攻效率波動明顯 　　Towns 若採取背打，容易被包夾或從底線協防截斷出手空間；但若改用面框攻擊、快 速啟動，反而能拉開節奏、搶先手。整體而言，Towns 的進攻選擇將直接影響尼克進攻體 系能否順利運作。 三、溜馬的全場壓迫 vs 尼克的破壓策略 　　溜馬是聯盟中極少數會使用 48 尺全場壓迫的球隊，輪替深度夠、體能條件佳。尼克 通常會以 Josh Hart 或 Towns 在前場設置高位掩護，幫助 Brunson 解壓。如果 Brunso n 被逼到持續低頭運球，體力消耗過快，第四節將會非常辛苦。 四、雙塔（Towns + Mitch）能否發揮？ 　　進攻端兩大優勢是搶進攻籃板與壓迫禁區，對於節奏快的溜馬能形成有效牽制；防守 端則可能因轉換速度慢，讓溜馬輕易打出空檔，且 Mitch 的罰球問題也讓他有被「駭人 戰術」的風險。雙塔能否撐住攻防兩端，將影響比賽走勢。 五、Haliburton 該怎麼守？ 　　預測尼克會以 Mikal Bridges 對位 Haliburton，OG Anunoby 去對 Siakam。Halibu rton 面對夾擊時傳球反應極快，幾乎無法逼出失誤；尼克若使用 drop coverage（下沉 式防守），過往也曾被打穿。溜馬戰術多使用 ghost screen、Spain action 等假掩護與 背後掩護，尼克必須極度小心。 六、Deuce McBride 的 X 因素 　　McBride 是尼克目前唯一能穩定上場的後場替補，近五場三分命中率達五成，若能持 續把握空檔，不僅能給 Brunson 拉空間，還能在防守端扛住溜馬持球點，是七人輪替中 的關鍵拼圖。 七、Josh Hart 的三分球會不會再爆？ 　　對手往往選擇放 Hart 投三分，但 Hart 卻在季後賽多次投出超標表現。溜馬若放他 過頭，很可能會重演塞爾提克的劇本，被 Hart 意外打爆。這是一場賭注：放他，就要承 擔被他手感燒起來的風險。 八、Mitchell Robinson 的籃板牽制力 　　Robinson 季後賽進攻籃板率超過 20%，幾乎每五球就能搶到一顆，等同改變一場比 賽的節奏。除了自己抓板外，他的存在也會吸引包夾、幫 Hart 等側翼創造弱邊衝板機會 ，是尼克陣地戰的隱形推進器。 九、Mikal Bridges 與 OG 的戰術價值 　　Bridges 是尼克陣中最會擋人與空切的「潤滑劑」，他不一定得分，但能讓進攻變得 流動順暢；OG 則是 Siakam 最難對付的對位，兩人對決甚至被稱為「多倫多內戰」。他 們兩位的發揮將會是全場最安靜但關鍵的戰場。 十、七人 vs 十人：體力是關鍵？ 　　溜馬板凳可以用到第十人，像 Jarace Walker、Ben Sheppard、TJ McConnell 都可 能出現有效表現；尼克則僅靠七人撐完全場。若系列賽拉長至六戰以上，尼克體力是否會 崩盤，是整個系列賽最致命的長期隱憂。 尼克要怎麼贏？ 1. 控制比賽節奏，不讓比賽跑起來 尼克只有七人輪替，溜馬是全聯盟跑得最快的球隊之一。尼克必須把比賽拖進半場攻防、 降低回合數，讓 OG、Mitch、Brunson 這些主力有體力撐到最後。節奏放慢，尼克才能靠 進攻籃板與防守布陣掌控戰局。 2. Brunson 要穩，不只是得分，也要控節奏 Brunson 是尼克的靈魂。他的持球決策與控場能力，是尼克所有半場進攻的核心。除了得 分，他也要避免被 TJ McConnell、Nesmith 等壓迫搞亂節奏。同時，若他防守端被對位 針對，也不能因此影響到體力與進攻端表現。 3. Mitch Robinson 把禁區變成尼克領地 Mitch 的進攻籃板與「dunker spot」吸引力，是尼克破局的關鍵。他一人在禁區就可能 改變整個對方包夾策略。進攻端幫助 Brunson 空間、防守端搶籃板減速溜馬節奏，都是 尼克賴以為生的重要武器。 4. OG Anunoby + Bridges 的外圍防守要鎖死 OG 對 Siakam，Bridges 對 Haliburton，是尼克必須成功的防守對位。這兩人如果能限 制住溜馬兩大發動機，就能迫使溜馬靠其他人持球，整體進攻效率自然下降。 5. Hart & McBride 三分球要有把握 溜馬一定會賭 Hart、McBride 外線不準，選擇放空協防。但這兩人若能把握外線空檔， 將有效破解溜馬的防守體系。McBride 更有可能成為這系列的 X 因子。 6. Thibs 要敢變招、敢提早換人 Thibodeau 教練過去調度保守，常常讓主力撐太久，導致第三節崩盤。這次面對跑轟型對 手，是否願意讓 McBride、Precious、甚至小球陣容多一點上場時間，將會是影響勝負的 因素。 溜馬要怎麼贏？ 1. 打快打滿，把尼克拖進48分鐘高速跑轟 溜馬是全聯盟速度最快的球隊之一，每球都推快攻、不讓對方布防。如果能不斷跑起來， 把比賽變成一場體能對決，打七人的尼克會很快撐不住。 2. 用戰術製造 Brunson 防守壓力，讓他「兩邊都累」 溜馬要不斷設計掩護讓 Brunson 捲入防守，消耗他體力，也逼他犯規或防守出錯。這不 只影響防守，還會反過來拖垮他進攻端的表現。 3. Haliburton 不要單打，要用系統解決比賽 Tyrese Haliburton 是一名系統型發動者。他不是要靠一打一贏球，而是靠 Spain pick 、ghost screen、DHO 等套路撕裂防線。Carlisle 最討厭連續單打，這點絕不能掉入陷 阱。 4. 放 Hart、放 McBride，賭外線不準 溜馬應該照 Celtics 的方式防守：死守 OG、Brunson，不惜放 Hart 與 McBride 出手。 若他們沒手感，就能斷掉尼克進攻的連動性。 5. TJ McConnell + 替補組上來就帶節奏 溜馬深度是優勢。TJ 上場就是壓迫、防守、傳導節奏的化身，Obi Toppin 則負責跑。這 組替補若能打出一波流，就能快速拉開比分或改變 momentum。 6. 要搶下防守籃板，不讓尼克第二波機會 尼克靠進攻籃板續命，如果 Mitch + Hart 一直搶，溜馬再快都沒用。必須全員參與卡位 ，避免尼克拉高回合數時的強硬打法。 7. 如果必要，Hack-a-Mitch 也是選項 Mitch Robinson 罰球極差，如果關鍵時刻對他犯規、打亂節奏、拖慢比賽，也可能是逼T hibs換陣的策略之一。 總結： 這系列賽不只是東區冠軍爭奪，更是「兩種風格的對決」： ‧ 尼克：慢 + 控 + 強體能 + 半場肉搏 ‧ 溜馬：快 + 深 + 團隊運轉 + 持續壓迫 誰能讓比賽按照自己的節奏走，誰就能奪下系列賽。 一邊是意志與穩定執行力，一邊是速度與輪替深度的極限拉扯。 這系列讓我非常期待～～～～ -- =Ptt封神榜2010-請選擇你的守護神= ~娜娜-糾團 ~雨狗-連結 ~鬍子-禮貌 ~MaxLJ--外交 ~柏油-勇氣 ~金寶-傳播 ~硬兔-傲嬌 ~Ｆ７-露點 ~蜜妮-重生 ~山獅-狩獵 ~MoNeNe-遺失 ~鯰姐-自信 ~芳嫂-自我 ~Ｚ９-情報 ~法兒-分享 ~loh--新知 ~ㄌㄔ-預言 ~天空熊-慈祥 ~剝削-藝術 ~鄉長-亂入->瓦哥-白爛 ~KOTD-過氣 ~bccc-除魔 ~小狐-戒嚴 ~傑克零-虔誠 ~5566-帥氣 ~路比-巧取 ~張爸-分身 ~妖西-忌妒 ~now1-釣魚 ~廖震-機八 ~威力踢-博學 ~天哥-經商 ~小雨-經驗 ~鄭公-食子 ~mim--中肯 ~t2d--神算 ~蝦姐-寒冷 ~腋魔俠-迷戀 -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc), 來自: 104.148.162.120 (美國) ※ 文章網址: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/NBA/M.1747808998.A.39B.html ※ 編輯: PiGFAcE (104.148.162.120 美國), 05/21/2025 15:36:32 稍微調了一下排版, 並且在文章開頭加了提示 提醒大家可以直接下來看觀戰重點 如果要看細節的再捲上去看幾個專家提供的數據和討論, 這樣應該比較省時, 謝謝大家 ※ 編輯: PiGFAcE (104.148.162.120 美國), 05/21/2025 17:10:22 ※ PiGFAcE:轉錄至看板 PACERS 05/21 17:16